Oil Level Paranoia

[Mex]

To preface this, I live in Northern New York, so ambient temperatures are what most non-northerners would consider cold (30-40 degrees F). Also, I'm currently using 20w50.

Several days ago I noticed that my oil level gauge was settling right around the red portion at the very bottom of the arc during normal driving. It would bounce around intermittently, but whenever the car was in motion the needle was pinned right on the bottom of the scale. I was pretty worried about being low on oil (I recently purchased the car and so was not the last person to fill it up), so when I was up to temp I pulled over at a gas station and added an additional quart. All the gauges looked ok after this and the car ran fine.

However, starting it up cold I noticed the pressure gauge crept up as high as 4 before settling down around 2.5-3 during warmed up, easy driving. The oil level needle sat right in the middle as well. I also noticed a little white cloud on one startup, though I couldn't tell if this was oil or just hot exhaust gas condensing in chilly, humid air.

So my question is, am I just being a paranoid newbie? Right now I'm planning on draining about a quart's worth tomorrow morning just to be safe.

[S2GART]

First, welcome to the world of 911s.

Rule number 1: Pay no attention to the oil level gauge. They are notoriously inaccurate. The oil level sensor is on the tank and when the engine is running, most of the oil is sent to the engine, so the level will be lower. The temperature of the oil plays a part in it as well. The only accurate way to check the oil level is with the engine up to operating temperature, engine idling, remove the dipstick and the level should be at the mid way point or a little higher.

The white cloud is just vapor. If it were oil, it would be blue.

Since you haven't done an oil change on one of these yet, "draining 1 quart" is not as easy as you may think. How familiar are you with these cars/engines?

[theiceman]

sounds like you need some basics ..

1, use the dipstick to check oil until you completely trust your gage .. checck it with the engine fully warmed up and idling on level ground. BTW the only time that oiul level guage is accurate is when warmed up and idling, and that is even if it is accurate ... check against your dipstick and learn the difference.

2. Oil pressure . Will always peg cold obviously but will settle down to 1-2 when idling when warmed up .. 4 at highway speed is normal ..

3. read read red ... there is so much to learn . I did a porsche 101 thread on rennlist a while back , go search and read it , a few good basics.

[DohertyCM]

A little white smoke on start up is ok..as long as it stops.
Being in a cold environment is probably the culprit...I live in texas and mine will smoke just a little if I have not run it in awhile.

You got a lot of oil in that car...you will get many more indications that you are low on oil before you actually "run out".

Temperature is one...if you are running hot...the first place I look is oil level.
You don't want too much oil. My mechanic tells me 1 quart low is ok.

So my vote is for paranoid.

A good gauge for oil pressure on a system with out mods....is 1000 rpm you should be at 1...2000 - the gauge should be at 2...etc..
This is not scientific or spec...but just a idea of where the needle should be.

[Mex]

Originally Posted by S2GART

First, welcome to the world of 911s.

Rule number 1: Pay no attention to the oil level gauge. They are notoriously inaccurate. The oil level sensor is on the tank and when the engine is running, most of the oil is sent to the engine, so the level will be lower. The temperature of the oil plays a part in it as well. The only accurate way to check the oil level is with the engine up to operating temperature, engine idling, remove the dipstick and the level should be at the mid way point or a little higher.

The white cloud is just vapor. If it were oil, it would be blue.

Since you haven't done an oil change on one of these yet, "draining 1 quart" is not as easy as you may think. How familiar are you with these cars/engines?

As far as experience, absolutely none. I "know" quite a bit about the cars, as for the engines I'm familiar with some of the basics and I've read Pelican for quite a while.

I thought if I opened the oil tank filler and loosened the drain plug I might be able to tease some out without having to refill the entire system (though an oil change is in the very near future, for both the colder temps and piece of mind). Am I way off base?

Would your suggestion be to run it up to temp, check the dipstick, and go from there?

[Reiver]

What they said...reading the gauge while moving it'll always be in the red.
20w50 is a bit stiff for your winters 10w40 Brad Penn might be a tad better.

[Mex]

Originally Posted by theiceman

sounds like you need some basics ..

1, use the dipstick to check oil until you completely trust your gage .. checck it with the engine fully warmed up and idling on level ground. BTW the only time that oiul level guage is accurate is when warmed up and idling, and that is even if it is accurate ... check against your dipstick and learn the difference.

2. Oil pressure . Will always peg cold obviously but will settle down to 1-2 when idling when warmed up .. 4 at highway speed is normal ..

3. read read red ... there is so much to learn . I did a porsche 101 thread on rennlist a while back , go search and read it , a few good basics.

Ok, thanks for the tips. I'll look for that 101 thread, I'm still very much on a 101 level with these cars...

[Mex]

Originally Posted by Reiver

What they said...reading the gauge while moving it'll always be in the red.
20w50 is a bit stiff for your winters 10w40 Brad Penn might be a tad better.

I was thinking 10w40 or 10w30 even, it gets really, really, REALLY cold

[Mex]

Originally Posted by DohertyCM

A little white smoke on start up is ok..as long as it stops.
Being in a cold environment is probably the culprit...I live in texas and mine will smoke just a little if I have not run it in awhile.

You got a lot of oil in that car...you will get many more indications that you are low on oil before you actually "run out".

Temperature is one...if you are running hot...the first place I look is oil level.
You don't want too much oil. My mechanic tells me 1 quart low is ok.

So my vote is for paranoid.

A good gauge for oil pressure on a system with out mods....is 1000 rpm you should be at 1...2000 - the gauge should be at 2...etc..
This is not scientific or spec...but just a idea of where the needle should be.

Ok, so what I'm gathering is that I had plenty of oil when I added the additional quart, and now I'm borderline overfilled?

[theiceman]

Originally Posted by Mex

Ok, so what I'm gathering is that I had plenty of oil when I added the additional quart, and now I'm borderline overfilled?

If you want to take some oil out you have a couple of options.

1. use a suction pump and take out the oil fill port at the tank . by far the safest and prefered method.

2. with the engine at its coldest and the oil at its thickest take some out of the crankcase. I think there are only a couple of litres in their and if your effeicient you may be able to do it .. warning i will be messy and redirect everywhere when you try to put the plug in while draining some .

3.. do NOT take that oil tank plug out .. when you do your first oil change you will get why .. comes out like niagagra falls with 9 litres or so sitting there dying to get out ... that my friend will end in tears ..

[Mex]

Originally Posted by theiceman

If you want to take some oil out you have a couple of options.

1. use a suction pump and take out the oil fill port at the tank . by far the safest and prefered method.

2. with the engine at its coldest and the oil at its thickest take some out of the crankcase. I think there are only a coupl eof lires in their and if your effeicient you may be able to do it .. warning i will be messy and redirect everywhere when you try to put the plug in while draining some .

3.. do NOT take that oil tank plug out .. when you do your first oil change you will get why .. comes out like niagagra falls with 9 litres or so sitting there dying to get out ... that my friend will end in tears ..

Ok, I'll go with door number one then.

Lesson learned: next time, ask first!

[S2GART]

If you plan on driving the car through the winter, then you will need a much thinner oil. 10W-40 is good down to -5 and 10W-30 is good down to -10. This is per the oil chart in my car's owner's manual. I use 15W-40 which is good down to 5 degs., year round.

The 20W-50 you have in there now is only good down to 15 degs. Though you are further North than I am here in CT, I doubt it has gotten down to 15 during the daytime. So there is no immediate need to get that oil out, but you ideally should run one of the aforementioned thinner oils.

Before you go to the trouble to trying to remove the 1 quart of oil you think is too much, check the oil level first.

Thoroughly read up on how to do an oil change on these cars. There is about 2 gallons of oil in the oil tank and it comes out in a rush. So you need to have a very large catch pan to handle the amount and speed that it comes out.

[Joe Bob]

Air cooled 911s are a dry sump motor. Like a Harley. They leak and they can burn oil. You have 12 quarts.....

The gauge is pretty much worthless, like the in dash clock.

Rely on the dip stick. Check it every other gas fill up....IF the engine is warm.

Keep it under the middle line. Too much will just get sucked into the intake and burn off.

Oil level, usage and burn off varies engine to engine, keep a routine until you get used to it. Porsche motors have an "acceptable" level of loss of one quart every 1,000 miles.....I'm lucky mine burns little if any.

Oil brands....geez, there is 40 page "Ultimate Oil" thread that you can spend weeks reading. VR1 Racing, Brad Penn and few others that have old school ZDDP for flat tappet engines like Porsche and Harleys and Diesel engines is what you need.

Cold climates like upstate NY.....go thinner than 20/50.....ask your local PCA guys what they use on vintage rides. If the guy you are asking drives a Boxster, set up a hair appointment and ask someone else.

Change the oil every six months or 3-4000 miles.....swap the heavier oil in on the summer. Look for the sales, O'Reilly's has a great sale in March....Autozone usually matches it. Buy enough to last at least a year....

An article from the Lord our God, The Waynester....

Pelican Technical Article: Time to Rebuild? - Part I

[Uncle Enzo]

Why not just change the oil so you know exactly how much you have got?

[GH85Carrera]

The gauge is mostly a way to alarm the driver. I have owned my 911 for 18 years. I still have to fight the urge to get worried when the oil level gauge is in the red. I learned long ago to get the engine up to at least 180 or 200 degrees, let it idle for at least a minute on level ground then use the dip stick. That is the ONLY way to know the real oil level.

If the thermostat has not opened and the oil lines in the front passenger fender are not hot, don't even bother checking the oil level it is just a waste of time.

If you are just driving on the street you can be two quarts low and still do no damage at all.

It can be darn near impossible to get the thermostat to open in the cold temps of winter. I can drive for an hour if the temp is below freezing and not get the engine hot enough to check the oil. Unless you have lots of smoking or leaks don't worry about the oil level.

[Nick Triesch]

What the heck is wrong with the dash clock? I use it all the time. I give it a look and it tells me the time. Don't have to look at my phone, don't have to wear a watch.

[Chuck.H]

This is just my opinion, not to say there is anything wrong with anybody elses. I have used ONLY my oil leve gauge for the last 20+ years. I removed the dipstick and put it in a safe place when I got my car, it got in the way of my funnel.

My gauge is always correct - I change my oil, it ends up in the middle when hot. I drive 500 miles, it goes down. I add oil, it goes back up again.

I should add I don't believe exact oil level is critical - its a dry sump system - so just keep enough oil in the tank to keep the engine pump supplied with oil, but don't over fill it.

Just my 2 cents.

Chuck.H
'89 TurboLookTarga, 365k miles (original, unopened engine).

[matt gineo]

Originally Posted by Chuck.H

This is just my opinion, not to say there is anything wrong with anybody elses. I have used ONLY my oil leve gauge for the last 20+ years. I removed the dipstick and put it in a safe place when I got my car, it got in the way of my funnel.

My gauge is always correct - I change my oil, it ends up in the middle when hot. I drive 500 miles, it goes down. I add oil, it goes back up again.

I should add I don't believe exact oil level is critical - its a dry sump system - so just keep enough oil in the tank to keep the engine pump supplied with oil, but don't over fill it.

Just my 2 cents.

Chuck.H
'89 TurboLookTarga, 365k miles (original, unopened engine).

I would never depend on the oil gauge(mine sucks) and I would never remove the dipstick, (the dipstick never lies).

You removed the dipstick because it gets in the way of your funnel??? How often do you add oil where it has become a a problem. It's not that difficult to remove the dipstick when adding oil. It might take all of 4 seconds to remove it..

[Jerome74911S]

Originally Posted by Nick Triesch

What the heck is wrong with the dash clock? I use it all the time. I give it a look and it tells me the time. Don't have to look at my phone, don't have to wear a watch.

Ditto. My dash clock is dead accurate.

[Chuck.H]

Matt writes:

>>You removed the dipstick because it gets in the way of your funnel??? How often do you add oil where it has become a a problem. It's not that difficult to remove the dipstick when adding oil. It might take all of 4 seconds to remove it..

Well, let's see - approx 115 oil changes, say I add 2-3 quarts between each one, half a quart at a time... so about 500 times? I just find it so convenient to use the gauge, and mine is accurate. Of course the day I drive it and it doesn't act very similar to what I expect, then I'd get the dipstick out - but mine has always been spot on, and I actually find it easy to verify: revs up, oil level down. sit at idle, needle comes up.

Again, not trying to convince anybody of my method, just saying my gauge works good enough for me to trust it.

Chuck.H
'89 TurboLookTarga, 365k miles