Beating the cops' cameras

[Rick Lee]

I was looking through my Bavarian Autosport catalogue last night and noticed a laser-confusing license plate cover. It's described as laser-absorbing and supposedly gives you more time to react to your laser detector (radar detectors are illegal in DC and VA, but not sure about laser).

The other product, which would be particularly useful in the Wash. DC area, is the license plate cover that blurs your tag number for the cameras. It supposedly blurs the tag number to the camera at certain angles, but keeps it perfectly legible head on. Anyone know if this stuff works?

I don't want to start a whole debate on ethics here. But people in the Wash. DC area know local governments have stepped up efforts to photograph speeders and red light runners. Part of these efforts include shortening yellow light times and changing speed limits frequently on the same road, so as to make it impossible to get out of the intersection in time and to catch people who don't slow down fast enough. Lockheed Martin even sends their reps to traffic court, instead of the cops showing up. Anyway, back to my original question -- does it work?

[poorb0yw]

Well I use one of the plate covers that supposedly "confuses" the radar. Its only happened once but a cop caught me going 145 mph on the interstate in my benzo but his radar only showed 107. So maybe it works?

[Pillow]

There are a bunch of people making this type of cover. Just go to Yahoo and search and you shoudl find a bunch of places, mostly from Canada, but I am not sure why? There is a place in Arizona that seemed good too.

From what I hear they work great. In Atlanta they have not done much with photo radar yet so I can wait... Granted when it starts here I am damn sure going to get a few covers!

I think this is a way to fill the county tressury and has nothing to do with "protecting and serving".

Then again I am all for not running lights, but I do not think this is a fair/legal way to do it.




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Adrian Pillow
1979 911 SC
1966 VW Microbus
PCA - Peachstate Region

[88 911 targa]

Hey guys, I have soem expertise in this area ( but don't tell anyone). The range most laser radars ( LIDARS) is around 3-4 THOUSAND FEET and it's function only depends on the light beam similar to your TV remote, being reflected back to the unit off of anything on the target. License palte is the easy target, but headlights, taillights, bumpers, hoods etc will work as well. Buy the time you figure out your caught it's way too late, and the same goes for the laser radar dectors, which only have an effective range of about 1000 feet, much closer to the unit than it needs to be.

The darker, less smooth ( oxidized) the finishe of the car is, the less effective distance the unit has, BUT, IT'S STILL IN EXCESS OF 1100 FEET.


BOTTOM LINE SAVE YOUR MONEY!!!! Just my opinion.

[Jdub]

It gets better: LockMart. gets a cut of every ticket. In their contract with the municipalities, they insist on a short yellow light period, down from the average of 4 to 5 seconds to 3. Now what do you suppose that does? Many more rear-enders, many more tickets generated.

It's all about money, nothing more.

Jw

[Rick Lee]

I know it's all about money, which is why I have no moral problem attempting to defeat the devices. When I was in driver's ed many years ago, the law was that you did not have to stop for a yellow light, as long as you could clear the intersection before it turned red. I recited this to a cop in VA once, who stopped me for that (it was a left turn arrow that went from green to yellow to off, but not red). The cop said I was right. And a week later the left turn arrow had been reset to turn red for a split second before it turned off and the light went green in both directions. Now the yellow light puts the radar cameras on alert and makes them begin to focus.

I guess I won't bother with the laser absorbing cover. But I will probably get the camera-blurring one.

[Joeaksa]

Peoria AZ has had cameras for years. A friend of mine who lives in the area says that they used to sell the "blurry" covers for the license plates until the cops started hassling them. Now they sell them on the internet instead.

In Europe we used to make them ourselves, with plastic and used some cloudy hairspray. Then tilt the top mount of the plate out a bit and it makes it more difficult to focus on. Feel that this was a move in the right direction but that the ones you buy are a bit more effective. As well, tilting the plate one way or the other helps it not reflect radar signals...

JA

[Ragtop]

FYI, Minnesota has responded to these covers by passing a law banning any type of cover over the license plate. I'm not sure if it's enforced, however, because I still see a lot of them. So your solution may be short-lived if the local authorities catch on.

[Evans, Marv]

In the San Diego area, the city installed cameras operated by Lockheed Martin Co.. They were making a bunch of money off of each ticket. Recently a local talk show guy sort of spearheaded a campaign to take the city to court. They found out Lockheed Martin had changed the duration of the yellow lights at some intersections (or maybe it was the city that did this) and Lockheed Martin had moved the sensor strips to catch more people. In the end, the judge ruled the city was within its rights to photograph cars, but that it was against the state constitution to allow a private company to operate the system. Many people were claiming it violated their 2nd amendment rights to confront your accusor (a camera).

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Marv Evans
'72 911E

[island911]

Indeed it is all about money, under the disguise of saving us all from ourselves. With the sensors built into intersections (the ones w/ cameras) the detection of a vehicle running the red can be detected, and the intersection can remain “all red” for the second it takes to clear.
For cities that use quick yellows the best counter-measure may be political/legal pressure. In fighting stale yellow tickets, bring up something called "interval of uncertainty." Perhaps a civil (traffic) engineer or an attorney can pipe up here.

I can’t help but think of a Norman Rockwell painting I saw at the N.R. museum, titled Welcome to Elmville It shows a 1920’s cop ready to pounce on a revenue stream (before the cops even had cars)
It’s online now: http://www.nrm.org/pictures-tour/page01.html
altough the description at the museum is/was less "pc" and more to the point of Rockwell recalling that 1929 "was the year of the speed traps" and big revenue.
Same as it ever was, eh.

---

'81 Platinum Metalic SC COUPE

[Rick Lee]

Right to face your accuser is not the 2nd Amendment, but I get your point. The same thing will probably happen here in DC soon enough -- OT though, DC law does violate the real 2nd Amendment, but we won't go there.

[Joe Bob]

2nd amendment is the right to bear arms and the "regulated militia"

6th amendment is the right to confront an accuser....

[poorb0yw]

Well, what I know is that in Austin, TX the yellow lights are the longest I've ever seen. Houston isn't too bad either. Hopefully none of these schemes will come my way.

[Rick Lee]

You're not in the same part of TX as **** Armey's Congressional district. But he's been a real vocal critic of the radar camera system in DC and how the yellow lights have been shortened here. TX in general has a healthier respect for civil liberties.

[Rick Lee]

What are those asterisks that showed up in my last message? I didn't type them. Oh sorry mods -- his real name is Richard Armey, but no one calls him that. Good thing I used my real name when registering on the board.

[Mike914six]

The next step will be for your OBD system to electronically respond to an ‘interrogation’ from a police officer and your car will tell him how fast you are going as well as other information about your driving habits that it has saved up. This type of invasion will not stop at emissions.

[Rick Lee]

I think that type of equipment will be dismantled or defeated long before such info can be logged. I fight every parking ticket, even when I'm wrong. I usually win and even if I don't, at least I've sapped the city's revenue enhancement just by showing up in court. They'll never get me by such Orwellian means.

[Rick Lee]

Actually, Lockheed Martin donated 5 police cruiser equipped with radar cameras. They're obviously mobile and shoot a beam with a speed threshold, which remains secret. The DC police even have on their website the 60 locations which are covered at any given time by the 5 cruisers. No exact addresses, but general block areas. I think Rock Creek Parkway is on there. MacArthur Blvd is the main one, since that lady was killed there last year. Lockheed gets $29 from each ticket. But I suspect a lot of these will either go unpaid or cost a lot in court fights. People here have the time, money and legal connections to fight b.s. tickets. I actually think DC police are great cops. It's just that this city's local gov't tries however they can to gouge people. 10% restaurant sales tax, rigorous parking enforcement, constant unjustified towing without notification -- and then the storage fees. It's like our very own Mexico in our nation's capital.

[adgx]

I've said this before... Used to be you went down the road and robers jumped out from behind the bushes and took your money. You went to the trusted neighborhood constable who helped you get your money back or at least punish the offender. Now it's the constable who hides behind the bushes and jumps out to take your money. I guess crime pays best.

[john70t]

Hey guys, heres some off-the subject stuff about new cars I heard:
12 volts systems are goning to be bumped up to 42 for all the body electronics, probably a dual system.

OBD3 standard-coming out in 2004, will most likely have an "always-on" GPS for severe emmisions violations. Setting a code will call up a Angency some where and you'll get a phone call and/or letter to bring it in for inspection. You're gonna drive the batmobile wether you like it or not. I myself worry about who else will have access to that info and when??