Yeah, gaining 40 hp from the "tuned" version of the GHL muffler just blows me away. Unfortunately, at the time he posted that I had already purchased the "untuned" version. The "untuned" version supposedly sounds better and is a little louder then the "tuned" version, but who wants to be all bark and no bite? So, now it is time to build up the pennies again, and get the so called "tuned" version. Ah, the never ending quest for more power.

When John tested the Powerflow, I think he got like an 11 hp loss, can't remember for sure. I don't know if he tested it back to back, or not.

I remember when John had email/called in question and some guidance on the 40HP issue. About the same time we discovered the problem and corrected it. It wasn't so much a "tune" issue as it was a backpressure issue. Nevertheless we were able to figure the problem out and correct it quickly. I felt bad for John, all that work and lost 40. I thought the poor guy was going to have a heart attack.

As far as your comments Brian... Still shocked. That fact that you have an engineering mind NO ONE should understand more the need for a controlled environment when running test. After the many many conversations and advice Michael and I have had with you I am plain shocked. If this is truly an issue that you can not justify something for looks alone than why the body improvements to your car. Sure is purdy but adds unnecessary drag. Here is what I offer. Lincoln Trails is having a dyno day at R&T within the next month. We will send up a PF and have a representative there to test this on your new turbo conversion. If it works then you will know with your own eyes. On the same lines if it does then you buy the one on your car. You can see what the gains if any based on the motor you build. If it doesn't then we will stand corrected and try to figure out what has happened to the product in the course of 2/3 years of production. Seems simple. Only thing you would be out if it doesn't work is some time. If it does then what the hell, it is worth the 400.00, 250 with the group if that goes through. Deal? I can't say we have ever mislead you in all these years. I am attaching some original test we had done on the PF. You will see they show the claims we have made all along. Not the 30 peak, but a decent gain overall and in the midrange. http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploads/15gain.jpg http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploads/79turbo.jpg http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploads/PF.jpg

You guys (Stephen and Michael) have helped me a bunch over the past few years and I don't wish to dog on you in any way.

I get irritated at the manufacturers of products similar to the Powerflow who make wild claims of increased performance. They sell what amounts to a cone filter on a length of PVC pipe and charge $150 and up for it.

You have shown that actual work has been done (by you) to back up the manufacturers claims. The problem (as I see it) is that the variation of individual engines is just too huge for a blanket horsepower claim to cover. One fellow might have a stock 245HP '76 motor, one might be tricked out to the 450 HP that the CIS tops out at. Will the Powerflow give both owners 10-15HP? The data starts to scatter with all the variables each owner will have.

As you know, doing these dynos at the frequency required to reduce variabiliy in the test, and to cover all the mild to wild mods, is just too cost and time prohibitive. This is why I choose to dismiss all the "dyno wars" that fuel the HP controversy.

NOW, with all that said - I am shocked that anyone would show a decrease in power using one of these units. They should flow every bit as well as the stock mailbox. Problem is we're talking marginal increases here. You could easily lose 15 hp dynoing your car on a hot or humid day. You'd have to dyno the car randomly more than a dozen times, alternating back and forth with the powerflow, to get usable numbers. Again, cost and time prohibitive.

So where is the LTR dyno day to be held? I keep seeing it in the Potpouri but no date listed. If you've had the chance to follow my personal posts you know I've been having a lot of problems tuning my car. I'm chipping away at it when I can, but I seriously doubt she'll be running properly for a few more weeks yet. At this stage in the game I'm still not ready to pay $400 or $250 for an extra 10-15HP. I don't mind paying for asthetics (as you know) and I sure wouldn't mind trashing the mailbox.