Fire Extinguisher, part 2

[david911]

Another set of dumb questions:

1) If halon is for enclosed spaces, how do I apply it to an engine compartment fire given that I have a rear spoiler on my 1988 coupe?

2) Do I buy the 2.5lb in a steel canister or the 3.5lb in an aluminum canister?

Thanks again,

David

[david911]

bump

[Superman]

My Halon is 2 kg (I think) and I believe more is better. and like I said in a recent post, a fire suppression professional friend, and head tech inspection guy at our local AX events, said that if there is an engine fire and you have a halon extinguisher:

1. Do no open the deck lid.
2. Poke the extinguisher nozzle through the grille (halon will come out with some force anyway).
3. EMPTY the contents of the extinguisher into the engine compartment
4. Continue to not open the deck lid
5. Find a dry chemical extingusher just in case, and it's a good idea to also disconnect the battery negative cable.
6. Do not open the deck lid.

[Jack Olsen]

If you're serious about not having your car burn, get the 5-pound fixed bottle with three outlets. If I flip my ash tray down, there's a red handle. Pull it, and halon floods the front trunk, rear engine compartment and cockpit for over 45 seconds. The good part is that it relieves you of the instinct to open up the trunk/decklid to see what's burning, and also is viable while you're still strapped into your harness. It costs $335, which is pretty good for the peace of mind it provides.

[KFC911]

Since I'm still a virtual newbie to my car and have not purchased a fire extinguisher 'yet', I have a question...I work in the IT field, so most of my knowledge regarding halon is relative to its use in data centers for fire suppression. It's my understanding that halon basically 'robs' the air of ozygen thus eliminating one of the essential ingredients the fire needs. Now my question...If my understanding of halon is correct, what does the driver breath while the halon is being released (w/ the setup that Jack has)? I realize that not having oxygen for 45 seconds or so isn't an issue (under normal circumstances), but if my car was on fire, and I couldn't breath on top of that (w/ panic setting in), I think I'd have a freakin' heart attack! Just learnin' as I go....Keith

[scedmonds]

I just got the 2.5lb. halon red cannister from www.drivewerks.com . . . I think I got it the week they got cleared to ship the halon units.

It's mounted in front of the passenger seat with the Brey-Krause stainless steel bracket (it's sweet).

It will knock down an engine fire no problem (per reports here and elsewhere). If the whole car goes, it may buy some time.

Note Superman's guidance: don't open the deck lid.

Cheers!

C.

[Jack Olsen]

What does the driver breath while the halon is being released (w/ the setup that Jack has)? I realize that not having oxygen for 45 seconds or so isn't an issue (under normal circumstances), but if my car was on fire, and I couldn't breath on top of that (w/ panic setting in), I think I'd have a freakin' heart attack!

If the driver is engulfed in flames, then 45 seconds of fresh oxygen is probably the least of his concerns. Otherwise (assuming the fire is in the trunk or engine compartment), opening the window would solve the problem.

On a track, the window is always open, anyway.

[surflvr911sc]

From the Halon MSDS:

“Health Hazards Acute and Chronic:
INHAL: expo for more than few mins >2% (8.5lsb/1000cu ft air) can produce impaired coordination, cardiac effect, dizziness.”

“Signs and Symptoms of Overexposure:
Impaired Coordination, Cardiac Irregularities, Frostbite”

“Medical Condition Aggravated by Exposure:
In susceptible individuals, cardiac sensitization to circulating epinephrine compounds can result in potentially fatal heart arrhythmias.”

“First Aid:
EYE: flush w/ water for 15 mins. If redness/ itching/ burning sensations develop have eyes examined/treated by med personnel. SKIN: wash w/ soap/water. Redness/ itching/ burning sensations develop seek med attn. INHAL: Remove to fresh air. Cough/other respiratory symptoms develop consult med personnel.”


Obviously, not the worse stuff in the world, but not really good for you either. When ever Halon is discharged at work, a medical exam is accomplished. This maybe over cautious but the possibilities of ill effects are there. I would suggest that if the time ever came, minimal exposure is important. I don’t think you would actually be exposed for up to 45 sec unless you were unconscious b/c getting out of a burning car would take priority over Halon exposure. My .02

[Doug Zielke]

Jack,
I like your idea of the control knob hidden inside the ashtray. Would you be so kind as to describe the whole installation?

[Jack Olsen]

It's a really cool setup. Former Pelicanite Tyson Schmidt came up with it. He used a grinder to cut away a piece of the old ash tray, and then mounted the fire system's T-shaped handle just left of center in the space behind the ash tray face. Click the ash tray up, and it's invisible.

He also took a spare ash tray I had, and cut it a little more, so that a hot lap timer could be attached to it and switched in on track days. So now, on the street, it looks 100% stock (except a small nozzle under the dash between the driver's legs), but on the track I've got a clear view of my lap times, and easy access to the 'panic button.'

As a bonus, we mounted the halon tank up front, keeping the weight forward.

The car's getting some minor stuff done to it right now, but I'll take pictures of the whole deal later.

[campbellcj]

Another data point - some of the track event sanctioning orgs require at least a 10BC rating. I suspect all of the fixed fire systems meet this, but often the small 2.5lb handheld Halon bottles are only rated 5BC. I spent the extra bones for a 5lb 10BC halon bottle and will also be installing a 3 nozzle fixed system (not necessarily halon) at some point.

The people who argue about the environmental or personal health issues of halon crack me up sometimes.

What's better for the environment - releasing 2.5lbs of Halon, or letting a one-ton-plus vehicle burn to the ground (hint: the tires alone are about 80lbs of nasty toxic stinky stuff)?

Regarding your lungs - well, unless I'm missing something, the key objective when your car (or computer room or whatever) is ablaze is to empty the whole bottle as quickly as possible and then LEAVE, SCRAM, GET THE HELL OUT!!! Not sit around inhaling Halon and smoke...

[KFC911]

Thanks everyone! Jack, I'd sure like to see pics also when you get a chance . I guess my confusion is this...for halon to work effectively, the area must be somewhat sealed (hence leaving the deck lid closed in case of an engine fire), so how does the halon work effectively in a track car (w/ the windows open), or off track if you open the door(s) to exit? Of course, like everyone else, "getting the hell out of dodge" is first priority, but saving the car (messy or not) would be nice too! I guess the folks that have a halon unit and a 'backup' conventional extinguisher have the best of both worlds.

[slakjaw]

i used to have a 5lb halon 1211 fire extinguisher
but my brother and his G-funk friends thought it would be a good idea to "take hits" off of it,, thay are all still alive

but i am out a 5lb bottle

[Fishcop]

Halon is banned in Australia

What happened to Tyson Schmidt? ("former Pelicanite")

[Jack Olsen]

Tyson moved to Los Angeles, and went to work forthe shop of Pelicanite "TRE Cup." He currently doesn't have a computer hook up, although he's doing pioneering suspension work on early cars (and some post-74 ones).

He was my co-driver in the 7-tracks-in-7-days Open Track Challenge, too. The kids got skills.

[Wil Ferch]

Guys:
One more thing about the toxicity issue....
I believe you can get Halon, Halotron ( more recent alternative), and Dupont Fe36 (??). In a ranking of toxicity, and all that it implies...the relative rankings are something like 15 for Fe36, 2 for Halotron, and 1 for Halon. Higher numbers are less toxic.
Just another thing to ponder, whether or not you sit in the car and directly breathe it in.
Also...
re: Jack Olson'd handle in the ashtray idea....I notice that Porsche offers a red versio of the black handle used as a engine lid release. Wouldn't THAT be cool !!!
--Wil Ferch

[Superman]

We want our Tyson back.