The difference of opinion is impressive, and here's a big can o' worms.

[SilberUrS6]

A fellow Carrera owner is probably going to have his heads off for valve guide replacement soon. He's not an internet guy, so I told him I'd try and find out what kinds of stuff folks do while the engine is out.

Holy crap. Some guys really do go nuts "while they're in there." This guy's wallet will not be able to take the exhaustive "while you're in there" list, so I figured I'd try and narrow it down to the 10-20 most important things to to while the motor is out and the heads are being refreshed.

Let's assume, for the moment, that the heads are all that actually need attention. Clutch, flywheel, pistons, bearings - all good. I know, until it comes apart, that isn't known, but his records indicate he's treated the car well, so I'm going to assume that stuff is good until proven otherwise. I suggested to him that since the motor is out, to change the top-of-engine fuel line, CHT sensor, OXS, CPS, change the plugs, fuel filter and recondition the injectors. I also suggested replacing the vacuum lines. I didn't want to go any further than that, because he and his wife are already a bit shocked at what the valve guide replacement is going to cost. I told him that John Walker's Workshop is about the best price he'd find for that service, and that he's not going to get a much better job anywhere in the country. Since he really loves the car, and wants to drive it more than he has been, I told him it's time to do repair and maintenance, and get to enjoying the car.

So, in addition to my short list (or instead of some items?), what say the Pelican faithful? BTW, the guy that dropped the motor, then ended up with a full glass-out repaint? Too far.

[Shaun @ Tru6]

I've purchased 2 Carrera's recently, an 84 with 72K miles for me, an 86 with 150K miles for a friend. Mine had 6 broken head studs, his, 7. I'd replaced the Dilaver studs at this time even if none are broken.

[Kidasters]

Go over the triangle of death as well. I'd also replace the motor and transmission mounts.

[HarryD]

When I replaced my valves guides in my 2.4 liter, the "while we were in there" included new seals at the triangle of death, a new clutch (old one worn to rivets), and Carrera tensioners. That was 45,000 miles ago and all is still just fine.

My advice, fix what's broke, replace any seals that are accessible and button her up.

[Laneco]

Any hoses thata re even remotely bad - replace. Replace the fuel lines on the 3.2.

angela

[steely]

Yes to hoses/vac lines & Fuel lines.
Speed & Reference sensors.
Intake gaskets and insulators.
bell crank bushings. oil return tubes. oil cooler gaskets.
What year is it? Certain G50s could use the fork bearing mod.

[Ronnie's.930]

Eric, I would suggest that your friend add one of these "while he is in there" (budget be damned)!

[Mr Project]

I just went through a similar scenario with my 3.2, although I was focused on the studs rather than the heads themselves. My thread is here, you can skip to page 4 for the detailed breakdown of what I did that I had to do, what I did that I didn't have to do, and what it all cost.

Budget 3.2 head stud replacement project

[Jcslocum]

See Rus' thread here for this exact project as it is getting towards the final stages:

1st drop & top end observations & questions

[euro911sc]

Originally Posted by Kidasters

Go over the triangle of death as well.

Originally Posted by HarryD

...included new seals at the triangle of death...

Ok... I have been on this forum for years and never heard this phrase... so what exactly is the...


<'evil voice>Triangle of Death<\evil voice>

[304065]

intersection of oil breather, oil thermostat and oil pressure switch

[yelcab1]

I am in the camp of letting sleeping dog lie.

In order to do the valve guides, you need top end seal kit so you replace all those seals. Clean the engine bay, engine tins, and paint anything that needs painting. Inspect hoses and replace what is cracked or leaking. If head studs break, replace them otherwise leave them.

You may need to replace the Head temp sensor because it does not come out gracefully. But the other 2 sensors, forget them. The only thing I would recommend is replacement of the rear main seal behind the flywheel. Let's hope the clutch is ... OK.

[T77911S]

Originally Posted by yelcab1

I am in the camp of letting sleeping dog lie.

In order to do the valve guides, you need top end seal kit so you replace all those seals. Clean the engine bay, engine tins, and paint anything that needs painting. Inspect hoses and replace what is cracked or leaking. If head studs break, replace them otherwise leave them.

You may need to replace the Head temp sensor because it does not come out gracefully. But the other 2 sensors, forget them. The only thing I would recommend is replacement of the rear main seal behind the flywheel. Let's hope the clutch is ... OK.

thats what i was thinking. required seals come with top end kit.
you did not say the miles on the car.
i would have done a compression/leak down to get an idea of the rings.
check the cylinders that are in there while you have it out. if rings are an issue down the road he can start saving for P/C's if alusil.

the CPS can cause strange running conditions. i just went thru it on my BMW. cost vs how easy to change vs mileage is a factor.

check the clutch disk for wear. i would pass on some external parts to replace a questionable disk. i would also do the TO bearing.
check the teeth on the flywheel

vacuum lines, no doubt.

[hcoles]

+1 to consider replacing/upgrading the clutch shaft if you have the needle bearing type, I think this ends up with a new fork and tube along with the new shaft and bushings.
I installed igus plastic bushings and a hard chromed shaft as a test - so far so good after 4 years or so. Might was well put in a new throwout bearing while you are in there. If you have a rubber clutch disk, could consider changing to the steel spring type. This is starting to read like the complete while-you-are-in-there list, oh well, when the engine and trans are out, things are easy to get at. The good thing is after these sorts of things are taken care of you can drive the car without worrying too much for years to come. Most of the effort is finding out what to do, thanks to this forum that is done for you.

[911pcars]

Save him a couple hundred. If the motor and trans. mounts are okay, let them be. They're easily replaced when it's time. However, if a total newbie and there's a budget, go ahead and replace them.

+1 on the engine compartment (intake manifold) fuel lines. Inspect the rubber hoses. If brittle and/or cracked, replace or rebuilt - access more difficult in the car.

Inspect rocker arms, bushings/rocker shafts.
Inspect cam lobes
Inspect chain and sprocket wear
Inspect chain ramps
Inspect oil pressure sender (inconvenient access once engine installed)
Replace gearbox input shaft seal
Exhaust port head studs/nuts (common issue area for petrification and breakage)
Inspect exhaust system fasteners
Swepco in the gearbox
CV joint bolts
Inspect flywheel friction surface (resurface if needed)

Yeah, that slippery slope could be a killer, but it could be worse. Your friend could have a Ferrari.

Sherwood

[dfhtrhjn]

I'd also check the pilot bearing on the flywheel. It's cheap, quick to replace, and worth replacing if worn.

[porsche930dude]

Originally Posted by 911pcars

Save him a couple hundred. If the motor and trans. mounts are okay, let them be. They're easily replaced when it's time. However, if a total newbie and there's a budget, go ahead and replace them.

+1 on the engine compartment (intake manifold) fuel lines. Inspect the rubber hoses. If brittle and/or cracked, replace or rebuilt - access more difficult in the car.

Inspect rocker arms, bushings/rocker shafts.
Inspect cam lobes
Inspect chain and sprocket wear
Inspect chain ramps
Inspect oil pressure sender (inconvenient access once engine installed)
Replace gearbox input shaft seal
Exhaust port head studs/nuts (common issue area for petrification and breakage)
Inspect exhaust system fasteners
Swepco in the gearbox
CV joint bolts
Inspect flywheel friction surface (resurface if needed)

Yeah, that slippery slope could be a killer, but it could be worse. Your friend could have a Ferrari.

Sherwood

If the cv boots look ok dont replace them. Seems new ones even good brands are hit and miss on the quality. Most of the time youre better off with 30 year old originals

[CountD]

Man, I would keep it simple.

1) Replace fuel lines - the consequences are far too serious
2) Replace the vacuum lines
3) DON'T replace the sensors - if they are OK now. I have been down this road and every time I replaced the oxygen sensor and others, the new ones were either cheesy or crapped out and I put the old ones back in. Don't fix what isn't broken with the sensors.
4) If it's going to John Walker, ask him!

Remember some of these old parts, even if 25 years old and used, are better than questionable new parts. Keep the old stuff in (except the lines and hoses).

[yelcab1]

Originally Posted by 911pcars

...

Yeah, that slippery slope could be a killer, but it could be worse. Your friend could have a Ferrari.

Sherwood

As I was explaining to my relative once, a BMW gets you to the little league, a Porsche gets you to the Minor League, and a Ferrari gets you to the Major League when it comes to maintenance and parts costs. $300 for a key anyone?

[911pcars]

Originally Posted by yelcab1

As I was explaining to my relative once, a BMW gets you to the little league, a Porsche gets you to the Minor League, and a Ferrari gets you to the Major League when it comes to maintenance and parts costs. $300 for a key anyone?

Yes sir. However, the $300 "smart" key is quite common with many vehicles (Toyota, Nissan, etc.). In the end, rebuilding a recent Ferrari may not be that much more than doing same on the current versions of our cars. Vintage parts might be another story. Some fizazz parts for comparison:

How about a 2-row timing chain @ $250 and 3-row timing chain @$550?
ICP Ferrari Parts
ferrari in A/C Hoses & Fittings | eBay

It seems Ferrari gaskets and hardware are especially pricey, but goes with any limited productin vehicle. As we all know, there are advantages with a vehicle that uses the same common parts over a 20+ year span.

Sherwood