Oil Return Tube Reinstall

[jmills]

Sorry for the noob question, but I am just starting to get my hands dirty with my new '84 Targa so every project is a first for me. Last night I was able to remove the two return tubes on the passenger side with no issues. I have read a lot of threads about replacing the tubes and everyone says to lube the O rings with grease to help with expanding the tubes. The most recommended grease was Dow, but I was not able to find any locally. Sly Glide was also recommended and I have some Sly Glide brake grease, so I greased everything up with that.

Even with the O rings greased, the tubes take a lot of force to expand while expanding them by hand off the car. They do spin easily. I tried to expand the tubes in place using the hose clamp method with little success.

I am curious if this is normal or if I am using the wrong grease. From reading the threads, it sounded like the tubes would expand easier than mine once greased.

Thanks for the input and I will soon be starting a thread detailing my quest to fix all the oil leaks. The motor will have to be pulled, so it should be interesting for this young grasshopper.

[john walker's workshop]

some silicone paste is thinner than others. dow 111 is thick and slides reasonably easy. i've tried thinner stuff and it didn't work.

[boyt911sc]

The green viton o-rings have very tight fit on the cylinder and crankcase mounting holes. Even with Dow grease, pushing them in without any mechanical aid takes some effort. When installing collapsible return tubes, I find it helpful to install clamp/s (as collar) on the tube and use it for leverage. Find something like a wrench or plier to push one end at a time by tapping it with a small hammer or similar tool. Once the greased o-rings starts to slide in, you'll feel it gets harder to pull out. Keep us posted.

Tony

[jmills]

Thanks. I may try to find a different grease to compare, but it sounds like my experience is typical. In my first go around, I was trying this method.


boyt911sc- I am sure I am missing something obvious, but if I insert one end of the tube into the motor and then tap the other end with a clamp/wrench/hammer, how do you keep the end from popping out of the motor without another set of hands?

[john walker's workshop]

i use two long needle nose pliers. push one end in, hold it with the pliers and then work the other in with the pliers. never had to use hose clamps or any other device.

[boyt911sc]

Originally Posted by jmills

Thanks. I may try to find a different grease to compare, but it sounds like my experience is typical. In my first go around, I was trying this method.


boyt911sc- I am sure I am missing something obvious, but if I insert one end of the tube into the motor and then tap the other end with a clamp/wrench/hammer, how do you keep the end from popping out of the motor without another set of hands?

jmills,

Maybe you already knew this but just a reminder in case you missed it. The correct orientation of the collapsible tube/s is that the smaller ID tube goes to the cylinder head side and the bigger ID tube goes to the crankcase. One Pelican member asked me to help him fix his leaking oil return tubes installed by his mechanic. The leak was so bad on all four return tubes. After removal and inspection, the 4 return tubes look so new including the green viton o-rings.

The problem was the in-correct orientation of the return tubes. Installed them back and engine is dry as it could it ever be. To answer your question, you have to install the return tube/s with the circlip off the groove (compressed state) and expand the tube. Using the clamp/s shown in your picture should work. This is a one-man job. Start at one end and make sure it is fully seated. Then go to the other end. Expand the tube to install the other end. I don't see any circlip in the picture (?).

Apply grease both on the o-rings and perimeter surfaces of the mounting holes. And you'll be done at no time at all.

Tony

[Jcslocum]

The pry bar method you have tried worked for me. It can take filling breaking force but the go in.

[kohho]

I'm in the same boat. 1984 Targa and I've removed the two oil-return tubes on the passenger side ( the easy ones to get at ). Old tubes came out easily but when I assembled the new collapsible tubes on my work bench with some motor-oil for lubricant I could hardly pull the tubes apart after putting them together. Needless to say I was unable to expand the tubes. I'm on the hunt for DOW 111 lubricant here in Vancouver, BC.

[Jcslocum]

I really doubt the Dow lubricant will make a significant difference in the force needed. I pushed on end in each side to figure out which was harder to seat. Then I used the pry bars to seat the opposite side.

[kohho]

Wow -what a difference. I looked all over town and finally found the DOW 111. Auklands-Grainger here in Vancouver BC carry it. The assembled oil-return tube was very difficult to slide apart when I was using silicon grease, then motor oil but once I cleaned them up and used the DOW 111, the two tube pieces slide easily. I'll try the install again tomorrow.

[timmy2]

My crew uses Dow 111 a lot for rebuilding breakers and it is great stuff for fitting o-rings and seals as recommended by many manufacturers.

[boyt911sc]

Originally Posted by Jcslocum

I really doubt the Dow lubricant will make a significant difference in the force needed. I pushed on end in each side to figure out which was harder to seat. Then I used the pry bars to seat the opposite side.

Even with the OEM one-piece return tubes, viton o-rings abundantly greased, installing them requires sufficient leverage (force) to get them seated properly. The Dow type grease is not critical for installing these return tubes. It is the leverage and better access to apply pressure (force) during installation that makes it easier. Otherwise, it would be really frustrating.

Tony

[john walker's workshop]

Originally Posted by Jcslocum

I really doubt the Dow lubricant will make a significant difference in the force needed. I pushed on end in each side to figure out which was harder to seat. Then I used the pry bars to seat the opposite side.

doubt all you want, but it's the shiite.

[jmills]

Thanks for making sure I was installing the tubes in the correct orientation and using the circlip. The picture I referenced was one that I found on this forum and not from me. I do have the tubes oriented correctly.

I was not able to work on tubes on Friday due to another unrelated garage project. I hope to get back at it tomorrow afternoon and will report back. I was not able to find Dow 111 lube locally, but I found something similar. I hope it will work out better than what I was using, but time will tell. Keep your fingers crossed.

[boyt911sc]

Originally Posted by jmills

Thanks for making sure I was installing the tubes in the correct orientation and using the circlip. The picture I referenced was one that I found on this forum and not from me. I do have the tubes oriented correctly.

I was not able to work on tubes on Friday due to another unrelated garage project. I hope to get back at it tomorrow afternoon and will report back. I was not able to find Dow 111 lube locally, but I found something similar. I hope it will work out better than what I was using, but time will tell. Keep your fingers crossed.

jmills,

Whether you have a Dow lubricant or other paste-like lubricant would be more than you need. The purpose of the lubricant is to reduce the coefficient of friction between the viton o-ring and the metal surface. What is important is using a lubricant that could help the rubber o-ring over come the coefficient of friction (mu) and slide through with minimal stress on the o-ring contact surface area.

Tony

[CCM911]

And we have a winner! My tubes may have a few scratches, but they popped right in using the "two plier" method. For lube, I used a NAPA product called "SillGlide"(sp?).

Originally Posted by john walker's workshop

i use two long needle nose pliers. push one end in, hold it with the pliers and then work the other in with the pliers. never had to use hose clamps or any other device.

[jmills]

Victory!!!.....at least on the first return tube. New day and new grease and things are working better. Now on to the other tubes.....more to come.

[kohho]

Just came in from the garage - all 4 oil-return tubes replaced and the difference for me was the DOW 111. I'm sure that if you come up with a method to apply more leverage and force, other lubricants will work, but I have to say that DOW 111 is magic.

[Hugh R]

Any silicone grease will probably work. I used the stuff I use on O-rings on my pool equipment. BIG difference between engine oil and silicone grease, with the silicone you can move the tubes in and out easily with two fingers. Stuffing the ends back into the engine still requires work.

[jmills]

Success. I got all 4 tubes installed with no real issues. I thought I would give some more details.

Removal of all four tubes went pretty easy. I crushed each tube with channel locks and then vice grips. When the vice grips were clamped down, I twisted them in order to get them out. I found that using a large screw driver to help twist the vice grips worked pretty well.


The forward most driver's side had less access, so the crush and twist method didn't work as well. I first crushed the tube on the outside and rotated the newly flat side parallel to the ground. I was then able to get my large screwdriver above the tube and use the heat exchanger attachment point as a point to leverage the tube out.



And the carnage.