New York State Revenue traps

[Jgordon]

I went through two random checkpoints last night, one on the east end of long island, and one in manhattan coming off the FDR drive. Both checking registration stickers. I sailed through the first one no stop, but I got "Your registration's coming up soon." on the second one. I bit back the urge to say something along the lines of "Oh, is that illegal?" since I didn't have my front plate on. Which highlights two points. First, is it coming up on the end of the fiscal year for the state? and secondly, I went through two "random" checks with no front plate, nothing said.

Just passing along some observation and annoyance. Hope you all had a good weekend.

Jared

[304065]

Jared,

I went through one of these traps at the entrance to the Lincoln Tunnel a few weeks back. The officer checked my registration sticker and driver's license, looked at me, said "Have a good night, Mr. Cramer" and I drove off. These checkpoints have been held to be constitutionally permissible despite the absence of specific probable cause to stop you, e.g. the current inspection sticker has a blue background, but the car has a red sticker because it is so out of date, erratic driving etc.

Now that you mention it, the only other time this happened was on a residential street in Sag Harbor, and it was about this time of year. Maybe they step up enforcement during the summer months.

Post the attack on our city by mutants I am a little less likely to get up on my hind legs in response to such a stop-- the total inconvenience was about 30 seconds and I'm not sure what they were looking for. I'm sure there are those who will suggest that this is the first step down a slippery slope, however.

JFC

[Bill Verburg]

They are also looking for front plates and seatbelts.

[avi8torny]

You need to look at the BIG PICTURE. This is an opportunity for Law Enforcement to take a random but controlled look at what's coming and going without violating civil liberties. Is it a PITA for those waiting, surely......but it's not just about seatbelts, registrations and inspections.

[Porsche911NYC]

To paraphrase Benjamin Franklin: Anyone who would willingly sacrifice their freedoms for sake of security deserves neither.

Check out this article just put up on the Drudge report: http://www.chron.com/cs/CDA/story.hts/nation/1548489

[avi8torny]

I wouldn't consider random road checks a threat to Ben Franklin's wonderful document. Blowing up tunnels full of traffic probably wasn't something he was consumed about.

[island911]

So it's not a slippery slope to revenue generation. . .? . . .it's just that law enforcement needs to wait for the bad guys to get all the way to the tunnel before catching them? This is not an acceptable solution.
If I understand this, everyone is being stopped so not to have the appearence of ethnic profiling. Or is it to make us FEEL secure?
If law enfocement has reason to be suspicious of someone, then fine. But to think our problems will be solved by having continual, invasive police presence . . .who are you kidding? This is exactly what Ben Franklin knew would not work.
What next; randomly checking grandma's for nail-files at airports.
I suppose that *is* okay, as our founding fathers knew nothing about airports. Oh I feel so secure,

[Bill Verburg]

The check points predate 9/11/2001. Perhaps at the tunnela there is some validity, butI live in an affluent little community where the State Police set up a road block w/ at least 6 cars and 12 to 16 troopers blocking the primary i/o route for the community. They do this at least twice a year, often on Sat or a holiday. One of the tropers told me that his instructions were to look for and ticket seat belts, registration, inspection, front plates, child seats, and anything else they could find. This is not safety its revenuing.

[avi8torny]

It's a tool used to deter, it's not perfect, not a revenue generator....but makes some feel more comfortable....others not.

[Superman]

Doesn't sound like my America. Or Amerika.

[pwd72s]

Oregon used to run checkpoints for drunk driving, later ruled unconstitutional. However, one arrest made at one of these checkpoints must have cost 'em big time. A lady couldn't walk a straight line, had a rolling walk like a drunk. Without a breath or urine test, she was cuffed, taken to the slammer. Oh-oh, turned out she was clean and sober...but she did have MS.

[304065]

Revenue generation aside, we DO voluntarily give up a portion of our civil liberty every time we drive a car, or fly on commercial aircraft.

[Law Professor Mode]

Flashback to 1951: Antonio Rochin is suspected of being a drug dealer. Police break into his apartment, but before they can seize Rochin, he swallows a couple of capsules. The zealous police take him to the hospital and pump his stomach involuntarily, and the capsules turn out to contain morphine. Rochin is convicted. The U.S. Supreme Court basically says that one cannot be involuntarily compelled to give evidence from one's person, and calls the police behavior "conduct that shocks the conscience." Rochin v. California, 342 U.S. 165 (1952). http://caselaw.lp.findlaw.com/scripts/getcase.pl?court=US&vol=342&invol=165

But compare Schmerber v. California, 284 U.S. 757 (1966).

http://www.law.wisc.edu/rcid/ResourceCenter/Caselaw/USsupCt/384%20US%20757.htm

So how can they make you take a breathalyzer? Simple, you implied your consent to the search when you accept the privilege of operating a motor vehicle on the public highways. If at any time you wish to assert your constitutional rights, you may absolutely do so- this is why the penalty for failure to submit to a blood alcohol test at the request of a law enforcement officer is typically equal to the number of points it takes to revoke your license. If you want to drive, you must voluntarily forfeit your constitutional rights upon request.

Interestingly, I didn't hear anybody come forward with the implied consent doctrine when Ms. Sultanna Freeman sued the State of Florida alleging that she was being unfarily discriminated against by being required to have a full-face photo on her driver's license. But you can bet that will be the State's argument: "you are free to exercise religious freedom but if you want to drive in Florida you will sit for the picture".
http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,56445,00.html

[/Law Professor Mode]

Ditto grandma and her nail file. If you want to pack a Bowie Knife with the Second Amendment engraved on it, you're welcome to do so . . . on the greyhound.

Where does it end? First of all, there has to be some identifiable state privilege you are receiving, and the invasion has to be pretty damn narrow and tailored specifically to some public safety interest. E.g. I don't want to be stopped by a police officer and voluntarily searched for weapons in order to reduce urban violence, just because I choose to walk on the public sidewalk.

[island911]

So then if a thief hold a gun to your head and says "your money or your life" . . .if you give him your money, he recieves it "with consent" right?
It is indeed difficult to survive in this automotive centric society. . . and yet. . .

Though the "grandma" point I was making is one of effectiveness.
Hiring a bunch of people to busy themselves checking other people in a random fashion will not provide a good yeild . . .unless you consider "grandma and her nail file" or "Joe Shmoe not wearing his seatbelt" as good yield.

[michel richard]

Airport security now does random checks on passengers just before boarding the aircraft.

I was picked out recently and was a bit annoyed. I asked the gentleman if I really had to do this or if I could refuse.

Answer, very matter of fact: You can certainly refuse, sir, you just won't be allowed to proceed onto the plane.

I complied.

Cheers.

Michel Richard

[pwd72s]

Michel Richard? May I assume that you are not an angry young person between the ages of 18-42, of Arabian descent? Because if the airport security folks had then picked you "at random", it would have beeen considered "profiling", and wrong, according to current thinking. Think of all the terrorist acts, go all the way back to the German Olympics. Whodunit? With the exception of Timothy McVeigh? Males of Arabic descent...between the ages of 18 and 42. My sympathy here is with the people of law enforcement. They MUST "check out" people they know couldn't be a threat...under fear of a liberal press saying they were "profiling". I know, I made an earlier post...a cop hauling a MS patient off to jail for DUI because she was staggering...but it's not comparable. In that case, a simple request for her to blow in the tube could have eliminated the profile check. But to NOT check out people of Arabic descent at airports? And to insist on "random" checks, picking out people like well known USA elected officials? That's being "politically correct" to the point of foolishness...and it's happening. Me? I'd have taken the train, a boat, or driven...I'm not flying...not because I'm afraid of airplanes, but because I feel that the so-called "security" is a sick joke!

[Neilk]

Sounds like one of Herr Ashcroft's orders

Revenue checks by the police are really annoying. There are legitimate crimes that can be prevented by patrolling in high crime areas, but the police dept wastes lots of resources to generate revenue for stupid offenses.

As for random check points at airports, if you go to flyertalk.com and read the forums there, you will quickly see that they are not random. The agents at the gate always check the first passenger in line and then once that passenger is finished being checked they will go to the next one. As for its' usefullness, I got checked twice on one trip and none of the agents noticed my 12 inch windsurfing fin or a little tool that resembled a small pistol.

Lastly, my 21 year old all-american looking brother, gets extra checks everytime he checks his luggage in. He is a huge national security risk. IMO, the TSA is a waste of money.

[sayah]

Ok, here goes. The NYC police routinly road block the entrance to my community late in the afternoon, on work days. This line causes a traffic jam of its own resulting in at least 10 to 15 minute delays. They give tickets for no front license, not having insurance cards, seat belts , well you get the idea.

False sense of security, increasing revenue and demeaning to the officers to boot are the main result.

What's the point? No big crime guy will get caugth.

[michel richard]

I am a white middle-aged business man. I am predominantly French speaking, hence the name. I speak English without an accent.

My oldest daughter dated a Haïtian guy for a couple of years, and I know that racial profiling goes on all the time in official and unofficial ways. I think people like me generally have no idea how unfairly burdensome being a visible minority must be.

That's all.

[Joeaksa]

PWD,

You hit the nail on the head. We just have to look at the past few months where Al Gore, John McCain and Joe Foss (Medal of Honor winner in WW2) were "strip searched at the gate" in separate occasions because they were deemed that could be a security risk!

Two of the three gents above were candidates for the President of our country, (Joe was only the Gov of S. Dakota) yet these blithering idiots waste time on someone who will never be a security risk. In doing so do not check the people who could pose a security risk and harass innocent people in the process to make it look like we are secure. This is all a knee jerk reaction and white wash to try to make the public feel better.

If we want security, we must emulate the security of El Al, the Israeli airlines. They do it right and do not give a damm about being politically correct. They are at war and realize it... we are at war and have not figured it out yet....

I have to fly because its my job but I refuse to give up my civil rights for Herr Ashcroft. History has shown that once the rights are taken away on a temp basis, they are almost never returned.

Joe

Ps the security idiots tried to take the Medal of Honor from Joe Foss because it had sharp points on it. He replied that "I was given that medal by President Roosevelt personally" and you better check with your superiors before trying to do something stupid like this and he stood his ground.

The "national guardsmen" at the gate were of no help what so ever and had no idea that they had a real hero before them. After a 30 minute wait at the gate he was allowed to proceed. BTW, he was enroute to either the Naval Academy or West Point to address the graduates and carrying the medal there to show at the ceremony when he was detained at the airport...

[gaijinda]

The roads of NYC are a fairly lawless places to be. In this crazy town we need more police enforcement of all type on the roads. What they are doing now are what they can with limited resources. It is not about revenue generation -or- stopping nutcases from blowing up tunnels. It is more about making sure the great un-washed in this town have licences, registrations, inspections and are not drunk and/or high. Quite reasonable if you ask me. I dont drive much in the city (I prefer to use the subway) and have only come up on one active check-point in my life. (Besides post 9/11 craziness) As for racial profiling, the only time I was ever pulled over in NYC was in a rough neighborhood (bed-sty) after the PO saw me talking on a cell phone while driving (illegal in NYC). After the usual questions (I was not buying drugs), I was sent on my way with a warning..

My pet peeve are rural townie cops with active radar (moving target), they should go back to their coffee shops and cats in trees and leave us alone!