How do I buy an additional total loss insurance

[m110]

After realizing that:

a) I have double the blue book value invested in my car
b) It is worth double the blue book to me

I wanted to get a declared value insurance but couldn't find one for a daily driver.

For enough money I am sure someone would insure me for the difference between my declared value amount and what my regular insurance would pay. The primary insurance would cover me up to the blue book value and some other policy for the difference up to what I think it is worth (ie the value of all the mods, bespoke bits, blood sweat and skinned knuckles).

Does anyone have experience with this?

[Charles Freeborn]

If you can't find an insurer that'll play ball take out a loss bond. Usually runs about 2-4% of the value. The more you want the more you pay. Simple as that.
Construction companies use 'em all the time.

[Ronnie's.930]

Do you drive your 911 more than 7K miles per year? I ask, because I currently have my 930 covered with American Collectors, $40,000 declared value, with a yearly mileage allowance of 7K miles.

[jlynch1960]

Think of it from the insurer's pov. Ronnie's 930 is probably worth around $40k, but if you were somehow able to convince them that your $20k car is worth $50k (and it's not, except perhaps to you), it creates a lot of incentive to play with matches. No wonder it's hard to get.

[drcoastline]

Originally Posted by jlynch1960

Think of it from the insurer's pov. Ronnie's 930 is probably worth around $40k, but if you were somehow able to convince them that your $20k car is worth $50k (and it's not, except perhaps to you), it creates a lot of incentive to play with matches. No wonder it's hard to get.

That's called a moral hazard.

Getting back to the OP question. Lloyd's of London will insure anything for a premium. You tell them what you want insured they look at it and say OK we'll take the risk for X dollars. If you say yes, you got a deal. The key is going to be to convince them your car is worth what you want to insure it for. Just for the record (b) in your OP isn't going to be a good enough reason. Insurance companies don't insure sentimental value, blood sweat or skinned knuckles. So you need to find a way to document value to prove your $20,000.00 car has a $40,000.00 replacement value.

From there you need to find an agent in your state experienced in dealing with high risk or high value items and the excess and surplus lines market. Maybe someone that deals with over the road trucking, taxi, livery, busing, etc. or an agent used to dealing in high value items such as antiques, collectables like guns, Faberge' eggs, etc.

There is a private high value car dealer in Greenwich Connecticut that may be able to point you in the right direction. The name escapes me right now but I'll look it up. They also store and maintain collectable cars for their clients. I am sure they have an outlet for what you are looking for. One of the cars they maintain is a 1961 Ferrari California it is owned by a Real Estate broker in Greenwich. It is his daily driver. I would bet it isn't insured by Geico.

[PCA7GGR]

Have you had it appraised?

[blockhed]

Most insurance companies have "special appraisals" and they send out agents to examine the car and discuss. The based of their observations, your records and etc a value is formed and can be increased or decreased, you're paying for it so it ends up your call .

[ErVikingo]

call Peter Doriguzzi at Heacock Classic Insurance. They offer various different programs and I have agreed value on my cars.

(800) 678-5173

Just a very satisfied customer.

[GH85Carrera]

I suspect you will discover the price get to be silly high with insurance for a daily driver that is way above the average value of similar cars. As others have said they will not insure for your perceived value, just a real value from a professional appraiser. What makes your car so much more that other 911s of the same vintage?

[m110]

Originally Posted by Ronnie's.930

Do you drive your 911 more than 7K miles per year? I ask, because I currently have my 930 covered with American Collectors, $40,000 declared value, with a yearly mileage allowance of 7K miles.

Generally yes, sometimes a thousand miles in a sitting. Pretty much a daily driver.

Originally Posted by jlynch1960

Think of it from the insurer's pov. Ronnie's 930 is probably worth around $40k, but if you were somehow able to convince them that your $20k car is worth $50k (and it's not, except perhaps to you), it creates a lot of incentive to play with matches. No wonder it's hard to get.

Completely agree. This why I am trying to find some way to do it because....

Originally Posted by drcoastline

That's called a moral hazard.....

....have a friend who's house fell off a cliff in Malibu and had to get Lloyd's to insure it. Just wondering what a policy like that would be for the excess above the bluebook and who might do that. Might be worthwhile.

Originally Posted by PCA7GGR

Have you had it appraised?

Not yet. Was going to wait for the last round of expensive upgrades (motor) and see what it comes out at. I was thinking it might be more than bluebook but don't know how to get that covered if it is a daily driver

Originally Posted by blockhed

... a value is formed and can be increased or decreased, you're paying for it so it ends up your call .

Exactly, would like the opportunity to see how much it would be.

Originally Posted by ErVikingo

call Peter Doriguzzi at Heacock .

Perfect, thanks.

Originally Posted by GH85Carrera

I suspect you will discover the price get to be silly high with insurance for a daily driver that is way above the average value of similar cars. As others have said they will not insure for your perceived value, just a real value from a professional appraiser. What makes your car so much more that other 911s of the same vintage?

I'd like to see how silly high. I only thought of it after making the poor judgement call of adding up some receipts that easily total more than the book value of the car. I don't charge myself labour so it seems my skinned knuckles might add some value. Just looking for an avenue to price out the additional coverage.

I watched a friend spend $60K on a Ferrari motor/tranny, total the car and get......$60K book value some years ago.

[drcoastline]

Just to be clear M110 the moral hazard isn't the house on the cliff. It's a piece of property that is insured for more than it is worth. In case where there is more insurance on something than it's value or worth than peoples moral's come into play. I was referring to jlync1960 playing with matches comment. You see the moral hazard come into play often in life insurance where people murder others for the life insurance policy. Buy or increase the policy value and than have them knocked off. Hence the term they are worth more dead than alive.

In a case like a car if you have a $20,000.00 car insured for $40,000.00 and after listing it on Ebay six times $30,000.00 and no body buys it, the car may accidentally slide down the boat ramp at the local marina while putting in the jets ski. Maybe it disappears out of the shopping mall parking lot or catches fire because after a 100 while Sunday drive the person decides the engine needs to be detailed and empties an entire can of engine degreaser on the headers. Oops!

Your friends home is a perfect example of how Lloyd's insures. No one else will touch the house on the hill so Lloyd's steps in and charges three times what the others do. We deal with Lloyd's here along the NJ coast with real property, commercial fishing boats, board walk property, sporting events, etc.

You just need to make calls to see who in your area can help. Not the Geico, Farmers, State Farm agent the companies they represent do all the standard insurance. Start with your friends agent that insured the Ferrari.

[scarceller]

Here's how I did it:

- Have it appraised PCA club will help you with this if your a member.
- I then used Leland-West Insurance - Classic Car Insurance insurance and they honored the appraisal and insured it at that value no questions asked.

[GH85Carrera]

If I add up all I have spent on my 911 over the last 18.5 years it may well come close to what I initially paid for the car. It sure does not have a fair market value of that total.

I understand fully your desire to get paid at least close to the money you have invested in a car. It never happens with normal cars. If you decided to sell your car right now could you realistically get close to that total?

I am just finishing up a total engine rebuild. While the car was sidelined I took the seats to a local upholstery shop and had the leather seats recovered. They look great.

My 1985 Carrera will have an all new drive train, fresh leather seats, AC that really works even in Savanna, GA in August, suspension that was totally rebuilt with new rubber bushings and shocks, and paint that is excellent. No way is it worth what I have invested in it. It is a top notch 911, but it is not even a $30,000 dollar car on the open market. No insurance company would insure it for 30K.

I have an agreed value of $24,950 with my insurance company. It cost me $22 per month. I will have a new appraisal done when it is back on the road and see what it comes in at.





It is not for sale.
I might take 40K for it.
That ain't gonna happen.

[GH85Carrera]

Originally Posted by scarceller

Here's how I did it:

- Have it appraised PCA club will help you with this if your a member.
- I then used Leland-West Insurance - Classic Car Insurance insurance and they honored the appraisal and insured it at that value no questions asked.

I just asked Vu in an email and PCA no longer has a valuation committee.

[m110]

GH85Carrera: I have a similar setup as you. I just don't want to have someone value my car at 15 when I am looking at significant documented investment. What it's worth to me is certainly more but I realize that is immaterial. Having a declared value of 25 would be great. I have not been able to find coverage for my situation and my original question is if I could buy coverage for the difference.

ie:
Blue book 15K at Geico or wherever
extra 10 K up to 25K total at some other place (such as people have mentioned above)

Thanks everyone

[Ronnie's.930]

Originally Posted by m110

GH85Carrera: I have a similar setup as you. I just don't want to have someone value my car at 15 when I am looking at significant documented investment. What it's worth to me is certainly more but I realize that is immaterial. Having a declared value of 25 would be great. I have not been able to find coverage for my situation and my original question is if I could buy coverage for the difference.

ie:
Blue book 15K at Geico or wherever
extra 10 K up to 25K total at some other place (such as people have mentioned above)

Thanks everyone

Just for an FYI, since American Collectors probably won't work for you due to your mileage needs, but the NADA Classic Car Guide has your car valued well above $15K (low retail is $20,300). The NADA guide is a source that A.C. says you are to use when deciding on a agreed upon value. You essentially pick a realistic price which falls between the NADA standards of "low" and "high" based upon the car's condition.

Also, when you fill out the online application, there is a spot for you to list all of the work and modifications you have done to the car with respect to how they have added value to it.

http://www.nadaguides.com/Classic-Cars/1988/Porsche/911-Carrera/2-Door-Coupe/Values

[Cooper911SC]

M110, don't give up on your search. DO be prepared to pay a steep premium.

As a data point, I have had the unfortunate experience of going through 2 different total loss settlements on non P cars.

In both cases there had been significant recent "maintenance" items done on the vehicles. 1) had received a fresh interior. 2) had received a fresh interior and recent engine rebuild.

Both were documented and got full value for the interiors, the engine was just over a year old. I was told that after 12 months it is considered "used" and wouldn't get any additional credit. After several months of fighting I was paid a fair value for that vehicle.

Be sure to have all of your paper documentation in order!

As a seperate data point, I carry a typical $1M Garage Keepers liability policy for my detailing business. I have additional coverage specifically for the vehicles I work on at another $150k.
This is great for most of my client's vehicles. The policy costs me ~$2k per year.

I also work on 2-4 vehicles per year valued at $1-$4M each. When I looked into a policy to cover that type of value the only carriers who would touch it were non "preferred" and weren't backed by any major agencies. Basically private investor groups willing to take the risk. Policy quote was for $12k per year.

Cooper

[ard]

Years ago I switched my insurance (house, cars) to Marsh, the insurance broker. I told them to shop around on my behalf and find a carrier who would allow agreed value (may be different that "declared value" IDK) with minimal restrictions. My policies are with ACE Private Risk, and my 993 has an agreed value endorsement and no driving restrictions.

You may want to try the broker route if you haven't yet.

[GH85Carrera]

Originally Posted by m110

GH85Carrera: I have a similar setup as you. I just don't want to have someone value my car at 15 when I am looking at significant documented investment. What it's worth to me is certainly more but I realize that is immaterial. Having a declared value of 25 would be great. I have not been able to find coverage for my situation and my original question is if I could buy coverage for the difference.

ie:
Blue book 15K at Geico or wherever
extra 10 K up to 25K total at some other place (such as people have mentioned above)

Thanks everyone

Look in your area for an American National representative. That is who I use. As I mentioned I have them for my house and three cars. My daily driver is a very nice 1986 El Camino. I have stated value on it. I had to pay for an appraisal on my own.



It is insured as my daily driver. No mileage restrictions no unusual restrictions at all. Obviously I can't use it for commercial purposes or rent it out but that is just logical.

It is still not expensive to insure. It costs more to insure than my wife's Infinity but it is not bad. I think it is about $40 per month for full coverage.

I do have a perfect driving record as does my wife.

[wildthing]

I just happened to be shopping for agreed value insurance. I filled out the Leland West online form, haven't heard from them since yesterday. Hagerty unfortunately does not like my 6k miles a year of usage. They seem to focus on garage/concours queens.

Any other ideas?