Please help, I need advice on purchase

[Nervous Buyer]

I am about to buy a one owner 1986 911 Turbo with extremely low mileage--around 3,500. The condition of the car is consistent with the mileage, but I am still nervous. The problem is, the car has very little service history besides oil changes which were done at a Porsche dealership that serviced the car.

I have a pretty good eye and have purchased several cars over the years, but this is my first Porsche. The car appears to be totally original with the exception of the tires and battery. The belts have Porsche part numbers on them but also Goodyear and the Optibelt.

Are there any telltale signs of vehicle mileage, some particular areas to look at? Are there some things that just can't be faked? How easy is it to disconnect the odometer on this car? I hope that some of the experts on this board can help me out. Sorry for the long message. Thanks in advance.

[78silversc]

Did you mean 35,000 miles?
With 3,500 how many oil changes could it have had?
Where is the car located?

[Nervous Buyer]

That's right, 3,500 miles. The owner periodically took the car in for an oil change. Usually once every couple of years.

[campbellcj]

For one thing I would try to "interview" a lead wrench or service-writer at that dealership to hear what they have to say about the car. If they serviced it for a few years they have a reasonable sense if its history (and owner) is legitimate.

Also, definitely try to get a non-involved Porsche guru to look over the car for you. A professional PPI is by far the best, but even if you just have a fellow Pelicanhead or local PCA member check it out, that is time well spent.

Where are you and/or the car located? I'm sure someone from the board wouldn't mind taking a little drive to go check out a super clean 930...

[Nervous Buyer]

I have had a fairly knowledgable friend of mine look at the car and he said that the mileage looked right. But can you really tell the difference between a Porsche with 3,500 miles and one with 35,000 if they have both been well maintained? I have seen several high mileage Porsches that looked almost perfect.

My concern is that I am obviously going to pay a premium for a low mileage car. I just want to make sure that everything is as represented.

[Don Plumley]

This has been said by others: in very, very low mileage older cars, you need to watch out for things that have dried up due to underuse - gaskets, seals, rubber brake lines, rubber parts, etc.

Since you are "nervous", I'd vote for a thorough independent PPI - maybe two. Then take a deep breath: it's a 16 year old car no matter how low the miles and things wear out from both use and no-use.

Edit: I re-read your concern. Well, yes it could have a new odometer, right? Don't know if there is a factory seal on the back of the case where the cables attach, maybe someone on the board can chime in on this one. I think you can tell a lot by the condition of the driver's seat and the interior, the pedal covers, shift knob, etc.. At 3.5K, it should look like brand new inside.

3,500 miles! Geez, and I thought I never drove my car!

Good Luck!

[zotman72]

Check the brake rotors. If it truly is 3500 miles, then the rotors will barely show any wear at all. Any discernible ridges, lips etc. well I would suspect otherwise. HTH

[Mike Feinstein]

Have a careful look at the service records. Do the dates and mileage add up? In other words....if there was an oil change in 1991 and the recipt shows 12,000 miles, something's wrong.

Trust me....your friend is not knowledgeable enough. Go to a trained, respected, and recommended Porsche mechanic and pay him $200 to do a thorough and educated inspection. You'll walk away with peace of mind regardless of your decision to buy or pass.

[jabb]

Get the car inspected, Where are you located ?
Based on your location someone can give you suggestions where to take the car. If the seller balks at having an independent inspection done then beware............

[A Quiet Boom]

I wouldn't feel right if I didn't ask you what YOUR plans are for the car. If you're buying it as a museum piece or rarely driven concours car that's fine. But if you plan to drive it a lot I'd look for something with a little more history. I bought my car, a 1966 912, that had been completely restored by the owner before my brother including upgrading it to 2.0E 911 power along with many other upgrades. That owner put aproximately 5k on it in the two years following the rebuild before he sold it to my brother. Due to college and susquently a new career my brother rarely had time to drive his "toy" car and only racked up around 2-3k during the 8 years he had it. When I bought it originally as a weekend/pleasure car I was plagued by the "little things" that go wrong from non-use. Mulitple oil leaks, plugged up carbs, hardened weatherstriping, dry-rotted tires, etc. I eventually traced down and fixed everything before swapping to a larger engine this summer but believe me it wasn't much fun getting here, every week it seemed a new problem popped up. Not trying to discourage you but I think you need to be realistic about how you will use the car, I know I'd almost be afraid to drive a car like that.

Sorry for rambling but I hope it helps.

[R22tech]

The odometer pulls right out of the dash, just get your fingers around the rim and start pulling, with constant pressure and a little wiggle. The back of it will have a date code, make sure it correspondes with the factory build date on the door jamb. Won't tell you if it has been rolled back or disconnected, but will reveal an odometer replacement. Also, check all the glass windows, they should NOT have any flaws, pits, or scratches with such limited use. Go look at a brand new car to get a feel at what glass is supposed to look like before checking. You will see what I mean if the glass looks worn.

[kcope]

Check the wear on the pedals.

[Wayne 962]

You can usually tell with some common sense. First of all, no one would be dumb enough to try to roll back the odo to 3500 (well I doubt that they would be). With that few miles, the car should look brand new. No dirt underneath, brake discs should be new (if not slightly rusty), etc. Tires should be brand new with the stubs still sticking out of them, especially if they were replaced...

How much is this car offered for? Unless you want a museum piece, you are probably paying too much for a low-mileage car. They do suffer from non-use problems...

-Wayne

[Eric Coffey]

In addition to all the great suggestions above, you might want to run the VIN number through Carfax.com to see if anything "shows up".

[Nervous Buyer]

Thanks for all the advice. I have talked to the owner and he had no problem with me taking the car to a mechanic. I'll let you know the outcome.

Wayne, this car is probably going to be pampered much the same as it was by the current owner. I have two young children and, at this stage in my life, I have little time to really enjoy driving my cars. I hope that will come again soon. The enjoyment now comes from looking for that hard-to-find part or taking them out early on a weekend morning. Sometimes I'll just go into the garage and spend an evening detailing a wheel. Just my form of therapy.

The owner is asking $40,000 and seems pretty firm. I plan on keeping the car for a long time and don't mind paying a little more for the right car. I just want to make sure that it is the right car.

[curtisaa]

Sounds to me you've found the "right" car. You may want to yourself a favor before purchase. Have the owner let you drive the car in many conditions..ie, sweepers,freeway, and stop & go traffic. This could give a bit more insight into the car you are about to purchase. 930's are nice cars, however that 4-speed will jade you a bit. I remember when "I had to have a 930" and purchased a 88' 930. I drove it 1800 miles in 2 1/2 years. Good luck on your future aquisition....

[nostatic]

Originally posted by curtisaa
purchased a 88' 930. I drove it 1800 miles in 2 1/2 years.

Just as a point of reference Curt, you should tell him how many miles you put on your first 911SC

[Nervous Buyer]

I have driven the car and it rides very nicely. Unlike so many 930s I've driven, the gear change is not bad at all--no grinding at any RPM. I think you're right, though; there are better driving cars. The non-turbo 911 comes to mind for instance or perhaps a 993 Turbo. I did consider both of those cars.

But in the end, as I said, this car isn't so much about testing its limits. It is, I think, the first car I ever dreamed about as a kid. I remember riding my bike down to Holbert's Porsche just to catch a glimpse of one.

I have several older cars from the fifties and sixties, including some that were at the pinnacle in their day. To drive them now is to be reminded just how far technology has come. Most wouldn't keep up with the lowliest 3 series. For me, though, it is about the experience, like going back in time.

[nostatic]

Originally posted by Nervous Buyer
For me, though, it is about the experience, almost going back in time.

Good point. In our minds I think we're all 16 or so. For those of us at least twice that age now, everything externally helps to remind us otherwise (especially the damn mirror). If we're lucky there are experiences that from time to time erase the exterior and immerse us back in our youth. Driving my SC does that...for brief moments I'm 16 with almost no responsibilities and have an aircooled engine behind me (back then it was a '67 bug).

Had a similar great flashback Monday. I was out in the surf, sun shining, sitting on my board, and I was 17 again out at Marine Street. Of course back then I didn't have a 5 year old son I was watching like a hawk as he dug in the sand on shore, but I never said it was a *perfect* time machine

[Planter91C2]

Originally posted by nostatic

If we're lucky there are experiences that from time to time erase the exterior and immerse us back in our youth.

ahhhhh, beer...