what should I buy...

[Touque]

oh no, not another 'tell me what type of car I should by thread'... sorry, but it's true!

Here's the scoop:

I've been extremely interested in Porsche's for 20 or so years. I almost bought one (a 1966 912) last year but went for another Acura Integra GS-R (I know, TOTALLY different cars) and i've been kicking myself ever since. My wife even gave me the go-ahead to get the 912, but for some stoopid reason, I didn't.

Anyways, I said to myself - screw it, sell the Acura and buy yourself a Porsche because it's something you've always wanted. I don't want any regrets in my life, blah blah blah... Last week, off to Ebay I went with the Acura and within 6 hours, she was gone. So here I am.

I don't have too much money up front (less than $7k) that I am willing to spend now. I am thinking about:

#1. A 912 because it's more 'friendly' for someone like myself to work on it, and potentially a lot less costly than a 911. I like the classic lines of a late-60's 912.

#2. A 911 because it's the 'real deal' when I think of Porsche's, it has a ton more power, but can be VERY expensive (motor obviously). I prefer anything pre-1974.

I would prefer a Targa (I can hear some of you snickering now ).

The deal is - should I get a slight fixer-upper for around $5k+ and put work in (paint, minor other work etc.), or look for a $7k targa which needs 'less' work, and 'hope' that it doesn't need any more (I know it will, but not right off the bat I hope)???, or just settle for a 912 and save up for a better-condition 911 for the next little while?

I have found a 1972 911 T Targa for $5500 with clean pans, decent motor (1973.5 2.4l) and good overall mechanicals. The paint is original and needs work... Sound ok? Should I wait for 'The One', or when we are talking about this price range, is there not much that can be done?

Many thanks in advance,

[s_wilwerding]

One thing to consider is that a 912 is not necessarily cheaper to own than a 911. In fact, other than the engine, they're pretty much the same. They rust in the same places, they have very similar suspension setups that need to be replaced with age, etc. However, 912's are generally cheaper to buy for the reasons that you mentioned.

It has been my experience (from what I've read on this board and other places) that people should pay more to buy an expensive car that has been well taken care of than a cheap car that they're going to fix up. Usually, it costs significantly more to fix a cheap car up than it would have been to just have bought the expensive car in the first place.

Also, even if you do buy an expensive car, budget some extra money for some upgrades. Very few people buy Porsches that don't need something fixed. If this is going to be a daily driver (as in a car you have to depend on), budget a lot of extra money. If it's a car that can sit in the garage waiting for money to become available to fix it, you don't need to budget as much. But don't blow all your money on the car.

Having said all that, in my opinion you should try to find a 911SC. They are very realiable, don't have as many rust issues as the earlier cars, and are a little better in the creature comforts department. You can probably find a nice Targa for around $10K, which is more than you want to spend, but in my opinion it would be well worth the extra money. After all, you'd likely spend $3K on a 912 to fix it up ($7K 912s usually need some work).

That's just my two cents. If you really want a 912 and are comfortable with the issues (rust, age, wear, etc.), buy a 912. But if you are really looking for a reliable, everday car, I would recommend a 911SC or something newer.

P.S. The SCWDP strikes again!

[Touque]

great - thanks for the informative answer!

I have read a 'ton' and have always heard that the SC's had fairly bullet-proof engines. My fear is/was that I spend $10 and then STILL have to put another $3k into it... however, I'm definitely going to look closer and consider looking at them as well

thanks

[Bill Douglas]

Obviously you are not all talk (Torque - not that funny I guess).

I think you are on the right track looking for a 911T. And the one you are torqing (again not that fricken funny) about with the 2.4CIS engine is probaly not a bad idea. With the momey you are planning on spending the car is not going to be a collectable so you may as well go for looks and a bit extra grunt that you will get with the bigger engine.

As S_Wilwerding recommended; a SC would be great. But it may be a bit of a rough dog for that sort of money. You can probably find quite a nice T. And 912s CAN be expensive to fix.

What ever you choose you must get a PPI done with valve covers off. It will be the most sensible car money you ever spend.

Bill '79SC

[Touque]

agreed about the PPI

(oh, and my name is Touque - see! , not torque hehe) (a touque is a hat for covering your ears when it's damn cold outside!!)

So i'm interested in a 'daily' driver as all I do is drive to the airport on Monday-Thursday, and drive on the weekends... I don't need it to be in perfect shape, but I don't want to drive an eyesore also...

$5500 for the car - a few minor odds and ends, and then a 'decent' paintjob as it's 30 years old and is showing its wear... or something newer, hmmmm........ (if I only had about $10k more, it would be different )

[nostatic]

I would plan on spending $2K as soon as you buy most anything, depending on how anal you are. If you could stretch to $10K and are patient, you could probably find a decent SC that wouldn't need too much.

If your budget really is around $7K, in addition to a T, you should seriously think about a middle years car ('74-'77). If you get a good one that has been well sorted, they can be great cars.

[Touque]

yeah, unfortunataly, my budget is $7k only (thanks to my lovely, dear wife!)... and the 2.7's motors 'scare' me - I know it may be a dumb thing to say,. Unless it's a very recent rebuild, then i'd be worried that it was going to pull apart.

I guess I like the pre-74's because of their classic looks, but I also go for 'buy the newest Porsche you can afford' also...

[emcon5]

Originally posted by Touque
(a touque is a hat for covering your ears when it's damn cold outside!!)

Well, Duh.



We know where there is a 911T with potential, owned by someone who doesn't seem to appreciate it. Maybe you can work a deal.

Tom

[Zeke]

I know where there is a '69 911T with *ONLY* some holes in the rear floor panel............

[obrut]

I know this will upset the numerous SC fans, but don't you find them kind of slow? I really don't understand why people rave about them so much - am I missing something?

My ex 3.2l Carrera didn't really feel that quick either but even it was quicker than an SC.

This is not meant to start a flame war, I just really don't get the SC attaction.

[Touque]

You guys are killin' me!! LOL

[Touque]

myself, i'm not worried about 'slow or fast' - hell, I was talking about 912's... my lawn mower has almost as much power as that thing My Integra GS-R had 170HP (and it was non-riced too!) and it would scream, but I like the classic's I guess...

i'm curious to hear you owners though and what you think about the SC?...

[Joe911]

Touque -

Totally understand - when I was in my middle 20s I wanted a 911 bad. Bought a 1970 911E Targa. No regrets. However - it was not my family’s only car and I was willing to fix anything short of an engine or trans overhaul. I had tools and a manual and lots of enthusiasm - I was a car guy! It never left me stranded - but frequently needed things done - spend many nights in the garage.

Advice - become an educated buyer as fast as you can. Go and drive every 911 you find for sale - crawl under them - ask questions - read the Pelican BBS end to end. Go to a PCA meeting - Porsche swap meet - (you did not say where you live) and talk to experienced Porsche owners (89 and earlier). Go meet the local Porsche mechanics. Ask their opinion about what to buy (just don’t buy their old one!!) DO NOT MAKE AN OFFER UNTIL YOU HAVE DRIVEN 20 OF THEM!! Then having made friends with several mechanics - have a PPI with particular attention to rust/accident damage and the engine.

Then fall in love….. to this day I walk out into my garage and pinch myself to make sure I am not dreaming.

Best of luck -

[Touque]

thanks Joe,

You sound like where I am (although I wish I was still in my 20's LOL)

I have been mr. research, but I like the recommendation of driving lots of them... I am rather impatient though, but I know that it's easy to get screwed if you don't get the 'right' one...

oh, i'm in Texas (just outside of Houston) btw... prices down here seem quite high for the condition that most are in

[Joe911]

Seeing many of them teaches you not just to look for - lets say rust - but where to look for it and what it looks like. So you have to see several bad ones to recognize a good one. Then when you can recognize a bad one that has been patched - you are ready to buy. ... and not likely to get "emotionally involved" before you have owned it for several months.

I learned the hard way with the current 911S - but it was purchased as a "project" so the fact that I have spend several hundred hours on it was the purpose.

[YTNUKLR]

A real pretty 912 that sounds excellent for $9,000. It's on: www.Route30Classics.com

[masraum]

I think your best bets will be a fixer upper early car or a 2.7L car. I don't think you should bother with a 912 because they will probably be as expensive as a 911 in the long run. The engines aren't exactly VW engines I am pretty sure, so you don't get off cheap on parts there. There is much less demand for those parts so prices will probably be inflated, and then all of the non motor parts, body, interior, etc..., will be basically the same. From what I've heard actually the brakes and suspension is actually a tad different so the parts will probably be harder to come by than a regular 911.

I think you can get a nice (decent) driver for the $7K that you have, but just be patient and look at as many cars as you can. And plan on doing some work, because I think at that price you will definitely have things popping up regularly. You won't regret it in the long run because you'll have a Porsche, and you'll have the satisfaction of fixing it yourself.

One other thing (and it may be blasphemous) Since you have a limited budget another option to get the famous Porsche engineering and quality in a great car at a discount price would be a 944. I think you could pick up a really sweet 944 for $7K and then plan on saving to move up to the 911 when you've got a better budget.

[Bobboloo]

Just take your time and enjoy the process.

I've noticed that the prices have fallen lately. It seems that the demand has slacked off a bit but the supply hasn't. For $7k you should be able to get a nice early car but be careful as there are a lot of dogs in that price range as well.

For $7k I would look for a 72' or 73' E Targa or a T as a second choice. Depending of course on condition. They are there if you take your time. The 72' Targa you mentioned sounds like a good candidate. In my experience though the pans are not where I've seen the most rust problems. It's the suspension pan, A pillars, and wheel wells (behind the door latch) that suffer the most. Basically any car before 77' you have to be very careful about rust.

Another consideration might be a 74' to 77' Targa with a 3.0 or 3.2 transplant. I've seen some lately.

On second thought, forget about what I just wrote about the 74' to 77'. You'll just be in the same boat that you were in with the Integra. i.e. a great car but not what you really wanted. Same goes for the 912. It is even more of a compromise. That is unless that's your dream car. But I don't think that's the case. I used to own a 912 years ago. Slow doesn't begin to describe there pick up. Great cars but very different than a 911 to drive.


Bobby

[s_wilwerding]

Originally posted by obrut
I know this will upset the numerous SC fans, but don't you find them kind of slow? I really don't understand why people rave about them so much - am I missing something?

My ex 3.2l Carrera didn't really feel that quick either but even it was quicker than an SC.

This is not meant to start a flame war, I just really don't get the SC attaction.

Well, my SC is quick enough for me and it seems to be quicker than the 2.7s I test drove. Frankly, though, speed was not my primary concern - reliability was. I have found my SC to be very reliable - I don't use it as an everyday driver, but I could. The car has not needed anything since I have owned it. Not that I haven't changed anything; it just hasn't needed it.

I've found, especially in this gentleman's case, that if you don't have a good deal of money to put towards repairs, an SC is the best way to go. It is dead reliable and even if something does go wrong, it's pretty easy to find parts for it, which is getting harder and harder to do for some of the old cars. In fact, looking through Pelican's site and some Porsche catalogs, it struck me that someone with gobs of money could probably build a 911SC out of replacement parts.

I will admit that's it's possible to buy other Porsches that are reliable and may not break anything significant while you own it - it could happen with any car. My experience has shown that it happens more often on 911SCs. So, that's why I bought one. And I have not yet regretted my decision.

P.S. I believe that my car is probably faster than a stock SC because it is light (no sunroof, A/C, etc.) and because it is Euro spec (204 HP). So, I may not be able to "correctly" address your concerns.

[Touque]

thanks y'all for your help once again,

well, I thought I had it narrowed down pretty good - not any more!

since I only have $7k to originally purchase the car, I know it's not going to be a concourse-winner, but am hoping for something fairly reliable...

my choices now:

Early 70's 911t or e (or even late 60's) in great shape
Mid to late 70's 911 with updated 2.7 or even transplanted 3.x liter

off the list:
-912 - unless it's 'perfect' and is calling my name...
-I suppose it doesn't have to be a Targa (sigh )
-an SC would be good, but it looks like they are out of my price range for now

oh, and about that 944 - yes it is a 'Porsche', but I wouldn't have gotten rid of the Integra if I wanted a water-cooled car...