Found easy heat with headers

[wayner]

I live in Canada

I have headers without heat exchangers, so spring and fall are pretty cool driving. Here is what I have found works, and tested to -40.

I did an unintentional experiment that lasted through most of January when the heater in my wife's stupid car gave up (Long story but I've now had it with new fangled cars).

She and I swapped vehicles until the dealer sorted it out, but that left me with far too many days of driving her car with zero cabin heat. The heater just blew cold air. Enough cold air to cause frost on the windshield.

Fortunately the car had heated seats. I always considered them auxiliary heat, but now they were my only heat. At -40, and dressed well, the drivers seat heater kept me from freezing, and the vacant passenger seat generated a bit of noticeable heat for the cabin (not much but my anecdotal evidence suggests that it was more comfortable with that heater on than off).

Also, I've noticed that on motorcycle trips, my heated vest keeps my hands form freezing. There is a lot to be said about keeping your core warm.

CONCLUSION:
If a seat heater can make -40 drive bearable in a modern car with no heat, a seat heater in my early 911 should be fine for damp cold spring and fall days. I've ordered a set that I will install in my Recaro pole positions.

If for some stupid reason I still want more, I'll pack my heated riding vest.

Next up, heated wind screen. I'll check my alternator's amps, and report back after I have one installed.

(...oh, and as for cooling without an air conditioner, I unplug my clock from the dash and get a huge blast of cool air. If that isn't enough, find Jeremy's thread on using a cooler full of ice and a heat exchanger with fan.)

[OffCamber00]

Sub'd.

Intersted in your results around the heated windscreen. The only thing I need heat for here in Charlotte is to defog the window when i get caught in the rain.

[kach22i]

It will be interesting to see how you wire those seats up.

I've been told that these older cars electricals were not designed to support anything more than a cigarette lighter.

In fact using the cigarette lighter to charge your cell phone is supposed to mess up your car bad, it's just was never intended to be used that way.

If you have more than one spare opening in your fuse box, I'd dedicate one jack per seat. Doubling up is sure to be trouble.

Overall this seems like a bad idea.

Can you perhaps wire directly to the car battery similar to the way the headlights do?

[wayner]

Don't worry. I don't trust the old wiring to support the stuff it was designed for let alone accessories

I'll run new wires if I have or even upgrade my fuse panel and alternator. Worst case I fill my second battery box with a battery to support the additional stuff. accessories

My belief is that there are no bad ideas. Bad implementation perhaps, but not bad ideas.

[kach22i]

Originally Posted by wayner

Don't worry. I don't trust the old wiring to support the stuff it was designed for let alone accessories

I'll run new wires if I have or even upgrade my fuse panel and alternator. Worst case I fill my second battery box with a battery to support the additional stuff. accessories

My belief is that there are no bad ideas. Bad implementation perhaps, but not bad ideas.

Sounds like an equal amount of work when compared to installing heat exchangers already.

I do like the idea, and will be looking at your progress with great interest.

[HawgRyder]

I have always wondered if there was some way to get the heat from the oil cooler involved in heating the cabin...or at least defrosting the windshield.
Maybe a cooler mounted up near the windshield in the trunk...with a valve system to bypass the front cooler....and a duct to allow the warm air to flow through it to get to the windshield and cabin?
Bob

[wayner]

Originally Posted by kach22i

Sounds like an equal amount of work when compared to installing heat exchangers already.

I do like the idea, and will be looking at your progress with great interest.

I have a hot rod 3.0 with hogged out ports. Let alone the work, which heat exchangers would I even use? SSis are said to be too small and hurt performance in larger displacement motors. 993 units can be used with some modification, but that comes with customization flange flipping cost and effort. That seems closest to ideal though.

I have to replace my windshield anyway, so for just a bit more I get a heated one.

As for seat heaters, $59 bucks off ebay and with a $3.00 relay and a new wire I am in business. The seat pads on my Recaros velcro shut so I can ins all the heaters in the cushions in about 10 minutes.

[wayner]

Originally Posted by HawgRyder

I have always wondered if there was some way to get the heat from the oil cooler involved in heating the cabin...or at least defrosting the windshield.
Maybe a cooler mounted up near the windshield in the trunk...with a valve system to bypass the front cooler....and a duct to allow the warm air to flow through it to get to the windshield and cabin?
Bob

I wondered the same.

But this winter was an eye opener as to how effective seat heaters really can be. Sure the cabin remains cold, but I don't.

I'm reminded of my friends garage. He heats the slab instead of the air. It is very comfortable to work in. Even though the air is not heated his feet are, and some of that heat radiates upwards into the air, but the key is the person on the slab keeps their core warm.

It seems to me that heating air is very inefficient compared to heating physical contact points.
Same for windshields I suppose.

[kach22i]

Originally Posted by wayner

I have to replace my windshield anyway, so for just a bit more I get a heated one.

Heated windshield?

Alright, I really am an ignorant fellow, didn't know these existed.

Should I get a heated windshield or not?

Heated windshield

Factory heated windshield

911 Windshield Install

Question on heated windshield???

[wayner]

I regret not getting one back when I started that other thread.

[kach22i]

It's been a month, are the seats wired for heat yet?

Headers look to be half the price of SSI's, and I've been driving without heat for 10 years so I guess I don't need heat.

[Steam Driver]

Charging a cell phone can mess up the cigarette lighter/electrical system? How? The charger draws a lot less current than the lighter. Not to mention the air compressor Porsche supplied in lieu of a "real" spare tire! Or countless radar detectors. I can't buy into that one; as long as you don't exceed the current rating the socket has no idea or cares about what's plugged into it!

[kach22i]

Originally Posted by Steam Driver

Charging a cell phone can mess up the cigarette lighter/electrical system? How? The charger draws a lot less current than the lighter. Not to mention the air compressor Porsche supplied in lieu of a "real" spare tire! Or countless radar detectors. I can't buy into that one; as long as you don't exceed the current rating the socket has no idea or cares about what's plugged into it!

It's just something I've read, also related to those plug in the cigarette lighter style heaters - do not use.

I'd be interested in the warning associated with using any air compressor out of the cigarette lighter hole, even a Porsche supplied one. I've been told in this forum not to use one, just as I've been told the factory supplied jack is actually dangerous to use, so don't use it - store it for later sell with the car.

The short amount of time it takes to heat up a cigarette lighter verses the time it takes to charge a phone or heat the interior I'm sure must be a factor.

Heat builds up in electrical wires similar to tires, just different cause and effect.

For instance, you may be able to take an "S" speed rated tire to 130 mph, but not for long without risking failure from overheating. Which is why they make H and V rated tires.

Are you going to upgrade the entire wiring harness in a + 30 year old car?

I'd run dedicate plug/jack wiring long before that, and that's the sort of detail I'm interested in when wiring up heated seats.

I'm sure people intending to use their cigarette lighter plug/jack for heavy use have done some sort of upgrade, perhaps they can chime in.

[wayner]

It is still -30c out and my car is hibernating

The driver's side heater will go in sometime in April.
I plan to run a fused wire directly from the battery.

My only concern is if the alternator can keep the battery up or not.
I have a 1973. If I get concerned I can add a small accessory battery in the second battery box that sits empty right now, and take it out when I don't need it.

When I had my boat I had one starting battery and one accessory battery so that I never had to worry about using too much juice when parked. A battery isolator allowed them both to be charged but only draw from one for accessories.

I suppose I could do the same if the alternator can't keep up.
During the day when it is warm enough I can charge both batteries, but only draw from one when the cool evening requires a seat heater....or during early season weather, put a charger on it when it is back in the garage.

I bought an Ebay seat heater element for Approx $50 bucks. Carbon fibre sheet that can be trimmed to size without destroying the electrical grid.

I have Recaro pole position seats so am just going to open the seat's velcro flap and tuck it in.

P.S.
My wife has ben driving my truck and I've been driving my wife's stupid car for more days this winter and using the seat heaters to survive our -30 and -40 days (with proper clothes). Her stupid car has been in and out of the dealer to get its modern water cooled heater systems fix and repeatedly replaced through most of January and February. I'll never buy a Mini again, but it has been a good proving ground for seat heaters

[bugstrider]

Subscribed, looking at doing the same upgrade so anxiously await your update........ When you thaw out of course. My wife has a tarted up 2009 mini hardtop R56, now I'm worried. What year is yours? She/we really like it, it's fun and zippy just like her.

That said, it's no Honda and it scares the hell out of me when the extended warranty runs out.

[wayner]

I've owned a lot of bad cars. I'll never own another Mini though.
I'd like to encourage you but I'd have fun with it until the warranty is up then dump it as soon as I could.

Our problems started at the year 3.5 mark (37k miles)I've given up on the dealers and the local independent shop I eventually took it to has one just like ours in for a new engine at around 60k miles. I still haven''t reached that mileage. our mini is a 2008 that is my wife's winter car that she bring out when she puts her "hasn't-needed-a-thing-reliable-2006 Mazda mx-5 away."


On the 911 heat note, we are still under snow so no news yet, but I have had another harebrained idea.

I checking into the cost of importing a heated wind screen from England and with shipping it is about $1k. Then I began thinking...

The carbon fibre seat heater panel can be trimmed to size. I am thinking of trimming one down and gluing a narrow strip of it across the base of the windshield where it will warm the glass plus allow the vent to blow slightly warmed air across it onto the windshield. (maybe even just tape it on as a test).

It is such crazy idea that it might just work.

(I know the seat heaters will work, I found that out again one more time in sub zero weather in the mini).

[kach22i]

The worst that can happen is that your try and fail.

You won't succeed unless you try.

Random Thought:

I have stock original leather seats. I was thinking of placing the heating mat on the leather, perhaps on a felt pad, and then covering it all with neoprene seat covers.

Maybe some other material which has a better chance of NOT reacting to the heat would be a better choice. Other than sheep-skin I cannot think of one off the top of my head though.

[911pcars]

Originally Posted by kach22i

It's just something I've read, also related to those plug in the cigarette lighter style heaters - do not use.

I'd be interested in the warning associated with using any air compressor out of the cigarette lighter hole, even a Porsche supplied one. I've been told in this forum not to use one, just as I've been told the factory supplied jack is actually dangerous to use, so don't use it - store it for later sell with the car.

The short amount of time it takes to heat up a cigarette lighter verses the time it takes to charge a phone or heat the interior I'm sure must be a factor.

Heat builds up in electrical wires similar to tires, just different cause and effect.

For instance, you may be able to take an "S" speed rated tire to 130 mph, but not for long without risking failure from overheating. Which is why they make H and V rated tires.

Are you going to upgrade the entire wiring harness in a + 30 year old car?

I'd run dedicate plug/jack wiring long before that, and that's the sort of detail I'm interested in when wiring up heated seats.

I'm sure people intending to use their cigarette lighter plug/jack for heavy use have done some sort of upgrade, perhaps they can chime in.

Any product designed to be powered by a standard cig. lighter should be enginered to not draw enough current to melt insulation and create a potential fire hazard. Sounds like massive liability if that's the case, especially if the cig. lighter circuit isn't fused.

Sherwood