To back-date, or not to back-date....?
 

Here is my lovely 1976 Porsche 911S which I bought last month from London in LHD.

I'm agonising on whether or not to backdate it to pre 73 shape, which is not a task to be taken lightly....

The colour is staying though!!!




http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1398593033.jpg

Iv read a lot about the backdating issues but not actually done it myself so would welcome any advice...

I got the car from Graeme Scholes who is an absolute gentleman and the owner of LHD.com and it was serviced prior to delivery. Great guy: Left Hand Drive Cars London | Left Hand Drive Vehicles London

The first thing that had to go was the steering wheel. I realise that it is original, but I didn't like it and it is too far away.

Before
http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1398593897.jpg


After


http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1398594084.jpg

The old stereo was bloody awful, so ripped it out and found a guy called Mike Seer in London that refurbishes vintage car radios and gives them FM and MP3 / iPod capability. I bought this one.

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1398594470.jpg


http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1398594581.jpg

But sent it back as once I got it out the box it just didn't seem right. Mike is finding one similar to this for me and he really takes care of his clients.

Original Vintage Classic Car Radios For Sale London. BLAUPUNKT GRUNDIG BECKER PHILIPS RADIOMOBILE OEM

Then the seats didn't grip me in the corners, so found these and were the subject of a different thread.

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/porsche-911-technical-forum/803829-can-anyone-help-new-guy-id-these-seats.html

But here is before:

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1398594925.jpg

And after:


http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1398595101.jpg

You will also notice that I added a quick release hub for the steering wheel. It gave me a more comfortable driving position and a great theft deterrent device...!

Next post: Engine cleaning, gear knob and headrests....

Very nice looking car! I don't see anything wrong with the changes, looks good, as long as you hold onto the old parts. Lol. I wouldn't ever want to sell that!

The gear knob was a wooden thing (not a fan of wood in sports cars) so it had to go.

Before:

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1398596347.jpg

It was glued on so took some persuading...


http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1398596574.jpg

I looked at hundreds and found American Shifter, which made me one to order, including the universal mounting kit. Custom Shift Knobs, Cool Shift Knobs, Shifters & Custom Interior Accessories « American Shifter


http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1398596836.jpg


http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1398596938.jpg

The engine was in a grubby state, so I goggled for some advice and found this blog:

DarrylD's Porsche 911 Restoration Project Journal

Darryl wrote a lot about using scalding hot water to clean so I bought a steam cleaner and now using it to clean everything....

Before:

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1398597246.jpg


After
http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1398597336.jpg

Thanks Henry.... Im debating whether to hold on to the old parts as they could off-set the cost of the upgrade....

Wow I cant believe it still has the 5 blade fan. I thought those were US only and all gone by now. Do some research on that I would change it out ASAP to an 11 blade for more cooling. Does it have the original thermo reactor exh manifolds? Those should go too. Probably not as big an issue in your climate but still.

Also I think the wood shift nob was a replica of the balsa wood knobs Porsche put in the 917 race cars - pretty cool. I like your new knob though - looks functional and attractive.

You have to be messing with us... Making fun of Americans and their quirky desire to change something that's gorgeous to begin with...kind of like getting bigger boobs or a face lift. I do like E30 seats, but... Step away from the car slowly...and walk away.

US Market
 

I think the car is US market judging from the sugar scoops and indicators.
I'm surprised the lights didn't have to get changed for the MOT but I certainly don't know anything about that. Other than watching UK tv shows.

Nice car!

Backdating is a slippery slope. You need to think about your goals for the car and really put the pencil to paper on cost vs what enjoyment you'll get out of it. If by backdating you mean mainly cosmetic changes to the longhood look and such, I'd think hard about it. Singer and Magnus have made the longhoods popular again, but just a few years ago that look was 'dated'. I recently saw an early car with a 993 body kit on it that was done about 15 years ago. Now that owner is probably kicking himself. Don't get me wrong... I love the longhood look. But I think it requires the right starting point. If you have a car that is fairly well sorted, I would think twice about backdating and put that money towards things that will bring more smiles per mile. Just my £0.02.

A simple thing that will dress up the engine bay is to replace that ducting with SCAT ducting like they use on airplanes. Here is a source in the US, but maybe you can find a similar source in the UK.

SCAT AIRCRAFT DUCTING from Aircraft Spruce

Keep the original parts... or you will be kicking yourself later.

I'd leave the bodystyle, probably just change the headlights, as it's easily reversible.

If I were you, I would rather work on weight.
The car is nice, really good shape. Keep it like that.
You can remove the entire A/C system even the hoses like I did.
And back date the heating system.
I don't know if the system in a 1976 works like in a 83, but in mine, I don't need heat blower. The heat flap boxes work perfectly to bring heat.

After you've finished cleaning and sorting, I suggest living with the car as is for a year or two. I had lots of dreams when I first bought my car. Clones, homages, hot rods etc. More and more I want to leave it be and enjoy the car as it was built (more or less). Its a shame to take a car that is by all means very nice and cut it up to make it something it isn't. A lot of people did that to long hoods in the 80s.

It's your car though so do whatever you enjoy with it. If you do start cutting it up, maybe think about a short hood Carrera RS or IROC? It would be a little bit less work and more period correct. Nice colour, glad it's staying!

Beautiful car. I like your mods but love the way it was. No way I would back date. Maybe just fiberglass bumpers if you dont like the impact type.

The are no doubt some who will disagree, but after the long hoods, 3.2 Carreras, the cars like yours are perceived by many as the closest thing to owning the rawness of an early car. I predict even though there are challenges with engine longevity due to thermal reactors, most have been corrected or rebuilt without, the mid years will be sought after and the prices for unmolested cars will escalate. (run-on sentence).

I am toying with the idea of back dating me SC, but there are tons of those and are pretty much considered the fair-hair step children, and not that worthy of collecting. That's why I bought one, for backdating without risk of economic loss. Well even SCs are going up in value.

Another consideration of backdating is the expense. If you will keep the car forever, who cares if it is not done 100% but if you do intend to sell it some day, and expect to get top dollar, for a back date, you will have to go full in. That can be an extremely proposition. Steel fenders, hood, bumpers, and paint can be expensive. Then there is backdating the interior; dash, switches, door cards, door pulls, door pockets, carpet, etc. Then there is the right engine,etc. If top dollar is not important and ROI is not important, then ignore.

Good luck with your decision

before you anything, adress to the engine!
- 11 blade rotor
- hydraulic chain tensioners
- turbo valve covers
- refurbish the ignition
- refurbish fuel lines and maybe intake

then take care of the driveway... tie rods, bushings, alignment

THEN! and only THEN, start "optical tuning"

p.s. the black seats are nasty. sorry, but its just true!
get some early sheel or recaro. not that 90th crap.

p.p.s. a backdating of your chrome model is imho a beatyful idea I'd think about intensivley too.

p.p.p.s. the rear speakers are HORRIBLE. junk that stuff!

I really like the mid-year 911s. yours looks to be very nice. I would not backdate that car.

regards,
Al

+1

Keep all of the stock parts. That's a nice car and the direction the values are going, you will be happy you kept it reversible to stock.

It's a real narrow body mid year! Don't make it a fake longhood. The fad will pass/ is passing and mid year cars are becoming desirable. Get some tombstone seats (still readily available) and enjoy your awesome car as is. The prototipo is very nice, but I would even hang on to the stock three-spoke.

Edit: oh sorry, didn't read properly! You changed the seats. Each to their own. But keep the originals in case you want to sell again. The next custodian will thank you.

Do Not backdate
 

I have player around with the idea of backdating my 87 Carrera. The Singer conversions and the Magnus Walker Hype mess with one's mind. I would try to keep all mods period correct, I have the same prototipo steering wheel, don't like the look of the 89 original wheel (I wish I had the original wheel), I like the 76 three spoke wheel, very nice. As long as you own the car keep those parts!! I would recommend a certificate of authenticity for the car and look at original delivery options.
As others have suggested put your money in making and keeping your car mechanically as good and reliable as you can go! Then drive and enjoy it....

Just looked at your pics again... That car is beautiful! I love the chrome trim on the windows and the Fuchs wheels. The tan interior is great with the outside color. In my opinion I would stay with porsche seats in correct interior color, if the car was for sale I would immediately ask about original seats and steering wheel. I would get rid of the big box speakers on the rear shelf. Another expensive item will be the dash, I think you have a plastic cap on your dash. Replacing and restoring the dash is an expensive deal, but makes for a great looking car. On the 76 the windshield will have to come out for that. I would also recommend European H4 headlights with chrome rings.
Beautiful car!!!

You are right, I should have mentioned. The car was imported from the US in 2008 and since that time the previous owner had done only 1200 miles...

Im looking to extract the air conditioner as A. it does not work B. I live in England and C. I keep banging my knees on it as its a couple of inches lower.

This is why I started the thread: Iv made awful decisions in the past with other cars and needed some wiser heads to assist.


I guess I have been dazzled by Magnus Walker and Singer and really work up ideas in my head, but I will be taking your advice and living with it for a while first before doing anything drastic. I am a British Army Officer and deploying to Afghanistan soon, so will be very cautious prior to cutting bits off before I go.

I agree on the speakers, they were there when I bought it. They will be gone as soon as I can find something more 70s to go in.

The seats though I like. Im working on some new headrests, but they are soooooo comfy. I am keeping the originals though as they are still good, they just don't hug me very well in the corners....

The seats are a bone of contention with some saying they are OK, and others not liking them.

I still have the originals and not planning on getting rid of them yet. The Recaros are so much more comfy and grip me better. The headrests are really ugly I think and some forums love the fishnets, but I don't.

I did buy some replacements, but they didn't work either...http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1398624752.jpg

So ordered some recaros and Il se how they are when they arrive....

I love narrow body mid years. Great color and with polished trim. I wouldn't change it. If I had one like yours, the only change I would make is to try and build an mfi 2.7 engine for it. One of the Porsche projects i always have had my eye on.

Have fun!

Thanks for your service brother...keep your head down, and kick some ass.

You have a nice car so it could easily be enjoyed just like it is.
I look at like an old hot rodder sees it. Its just a car, personalize it to suit your taste.

Here my 87 Carrera with a 3.3 turbo hidden under the tail.

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1398638663.jpg
http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1398638684.jpg
yup, the little yellow car is my 914/6

I bought my 3.2 just over 2½ years ago. (http://forums.pelicanparts.com/porsche-911-technical-forum/636192-picking-up-carrera-week.html) If you had asked me back then about backdating, I would have said that the chances of me backdating it when I painted it in a few years was probably 90% or better.

Today, ask me the same question (repaint is still a few years out) and my answer is the opposite. I haven't totally ruled out backdating it, but the chances are slim, frankly.

What changed? Me. After driving and enjoying the car for a couple of years, I've come to the realization that it's a great car, and it doesn't need to look like what it's not. Doesn't mean I'll leave it 100% stock, but I don't think a full backdate is in the cards.

So that is my recommendation. Before you commit to backdating or not, spend plenty of time driving it and getting to know it. You may well still want to do it, and that's OK. But you might find the car's current looks growing on you. I know your car looks great to me as it is now.

Errrr Bill, how did you flip my car round? Am I having a psychotic moment here?

Thanks Rich. I'm literally covering the rear as we pull out of there, so there is not much enthusiasm for heroics and everyone is of the mindset of coming home with the same number of soldiers they started with.

In any case, I have a 911 project to work on when I get back...

Nice car, leave stock...
 

Hi, I wouldn't backdate that car, it's lovely how it is. Also, the 5 blade fan will not cause overheating issues if your engine is in good shape (particularly in the cool UK climate). Its distinctive sound forms part of the character of your car, I would not change it.

Now, your Recaros. They are from an 80's Fiat Strada Abarth. I had them in my old Morris 1000 Hot Rod. They can get uncomfortable on long journeys because of the way the tilt adjustment works.

Another 'feature' is that when they were fitted in the Strada originally, when tilted forward they hit the roof, so were completely useless at letting people into the back of the car! They did they same in my Morris.

Do they hit the roof in your 911?

Yes they do, but if Im going in the back I whip the headrests out first, and in any case the back has no seat belts so will be no passengers going there.

Im thinking of having them retrimmed in brown to match the interior anyway... But Im taking my time on the big decisions.

As the others have said keep the original parts. I agree with Flojo thats the seats are nasty and that gear knob sticks out like a sore thumb. You may be in the UK and have a LHD but even these have a higher price over RHD models due to the larger market and proximity to the continent. You have a lovely car but the gear knob and seats have devalued it already. I´d concentrate on decent mechanical upgrades before you start screwing around with the optics.

This must be a hoot to drive, does it have an IC?