My first engine pull...this is going to be a long forum...

[porsche_virus]

Well, I finally did it...I pulled the engine last night and this morning. It went fairly well, with only a few cuss words here and there, and about 12 beers. My goal is to fix ALL of the oil leaks and possbily replace the head studs if they need it, and maybe the head gaskets because one of them is blown for sure. I also have to fix the 2nd gear grinding and 3rd gear lag.
KC

[Rot 911]

Looking good! I and some others have used just a regular engine stand for working on the engine. What do you plan on doing?

[porsche_virus]

Well, I haven't thought about that yet I hear that you can use a regular V-8 stand, but I'm a little confused as to how you mount it to the motor. Any suggestions would be greatly appreciated.

kc

[Superman]

I used a regular generic engine stand. Had to improvise a little with washers but it worked okay until I split the case. A generic engine stand would very likely cause severe damage to the case if you use it when you split the case. At that time, the real yoke will be much, much better.

Proper oil filters for your car are BLACK. 12 beers is about right.

[htbetz]

Good luck dude! I did my 74' 2.7 rebuild over the past year. Learned a lot, would change some of the places I sent some parts but otherwise very pleased how things turned out. Once you got it back together and broken in, the sound it makes winding out to 5000 rpm is awesome. Any questions on my experiance, let me know.
My engine has the same tube comming out. I thought a hose was missing untill I looked up into the tube and saw that it dosen't go through.

[Jay Auskin]

In your "logo" picture under your name, it looks like you have several "ladies" sprawled out over your car. What's the story with that?

Did you use the engine removal jack tool/pad, or just a balancing act with some wood/newspapers or such??

What's the max height of your jack stands and floor jack??

(can you tell I might be doing this in the near future?)

Nice work!

[speeder]

Your motor does not have 'head gaskets', there are plenty of gaskets asociated w/ the top end, but no gasket between cylinders and heads. If this is a DIY project and your experience is w/ domestic cars, (or other H2O cooled engines), I strongly suggest buying a book or three before tearing down. 2.7s pull head studs, if your motor is leaking a bunch of oil from cylinder/head junction, that could be the culprit. Or leaking exhaust from same place. This is a fairly expensive operation to fix correctly, (ie., so that it does not re-occur immediately), I am in the school of thought that it is completely BANANAS to do this to a 2.7 CIS. It can cost as much, (or a lot more), than an excellent used 3.2 motor, which bolts right in to a mid-70s car and makes it worth something $$.

Good luck and ask first!

[john walker's workshop]

2.7s do indeed have a head gasket, in the form of an o ring, set into a groove on the top of the cylinder.

[Wayne 962]

"Your motor does not have 'head gaskets', there are plenty of gaskets asociated w/ the top end, but no gasket between cylinders and heads."

Incorrect - there's a compression gasket that fits on top of the cylinders and mates with the heads on the 2.7.

Engine Stands:

Engine Stand - Let’s talk for a moment about engine stands. You can use a plain vanilla engine stand that you can purchase at any local auto parts store. However, you want to make sure that you use the special 911 engine mount adapter ‘yoke’, show in Figure 2-1. This adapter yoke attaches to the engine where the transmission normally mounts, and holds the engine securely while it is mounted on the engine stand. Although the bolt pattern may be the same, I don’t recommend using VW engine stand yokes – get one specifically made for the 911. The problem with the VW adapter yokes is that they are not constructed to hold the extra weight of the 911 engine. Make sure that the yoke you purchase has five spokes holding on the fixture ring, and is specifically rated to hold a minimum of 800 lbs. The typical 911 engine with fuel injection and exhaust weighs in at about 350-450 lbs, but you want that extra margin just to be extra safe. Keep in mind that the 911 Turbo engines will weigh quite a few pounds more with all their extra fuel injection and exhaust components. Don’t attempt to use the standard universal engine mount fixture that comes with most engine stands – this can be dangerous and cause damage to your engine case as well.

-Wayne

[KTL]

Woo hoo! KC took the bumper off! Good idea in my opinion.

Glad to have you as a member of the club who removes the bumper when pulling the motor.

[Doug Zielke]

Wayne sez:
"Don’t attempt to use the standard universal engine mount fixture that comes with most engine stands – this can be dangerous and cause damage to your engine case as well."

Until I got my genuine engine holding fixture (aka: yoke) from the Big Bird, I didn't really understand what all the hype was about.
Now that I have it, I know why it's the only way to go.
Buy the yoke. It's cheaper than buying a new case!

[porsche_virus]

WELL...thanks for all the input so far. I will start by saying that I have thought about putting a 3.0 or 3.2 engine in there, but what's to say that it won't have the same problems as my 2.7? Plus, I like tinkering with stuff like this and I think I can pull it off. I've worked on a lot of Honda motors and I know they are not the same beast, but I have a lot of books for the 911 and a local 911-only mechanic who visits about once a week or whenever I call him for advice. He agrees that the head studs are a problem, and the valve/timing adjustment can destroy the motor if not re-assembled correctly. However, I can't help but think no matter what I do to this engine, that it can't be more costly than buying another engine, and one that's been rebuilt.

BUMPER: Yes, I figured the only way to get the engine out with my limited height jackstands was to remove the bumper. Just seemed like common sense to me and took all of about 10 minutes.

QUESTION: While I'm contemplating the fate of this engine before I tear into it...any thoughts on removing the CIS and going with Webers? I have a friend who says it's the only way to go, and that I could probably sell my entire CIS system for almost enough to buy a new set of Webers. Is this a real pain to convert? Should I just fix what's needed and put the motor back in and drive? I figured the more speed the better, but if it's gonna take all winter and $5000 to do it, I'll skip it.

[porsche_virus]

The girls in that picture are from a Pimp n' Ho party that I had just after getting the car...

http://www.sunflower.com/~kcmoore/pimp.html

[john walker's workshop]

webers are cool, but you won't notice much more performance over the CIS. it's getting hard to find a good used set for less than $1500. selling the CIS will net you $100 if you're lucky. then you have to tinker with the carbs and clean the dirt particles out of the idle jets quite a bit. but they're still cool.

[porsche_virus]

John Walker: Thanks for the input...that settles that! I'll stick with the CIS...if it ain't broke, don't break it more!

Engine stand: Anyone wanna RENT me their YOKE that they used once and is now collecting dust? Sorry Wayne, as much as I want to buy a new one...I just don't think it's in the budget after I buy all the engine parts I need. But don't worry...you'll be getting a large order from me soon enough (...and don't forget my "Free Genuine Porsche Keychain Wallet" with my order )



kc

[jkeyzer]

3.2 has an aluminum case, you won't be pulling headstuds in that case.

[CamB]

Yeah, but there are people starting to have to rebuild their 3.2s...

In the long run, I reckon the economics of a 3.0 or 3.2 are somewhat marginal (disclaimer - I don't really know, I just "reckon"). Extra power is nice though...

Now, more impotantly, someone (htbetz) up top said:

"the sound it makes winding out to 5000 rpm is awesome".

Please tell me you mean "winding out through 5000 rpm". Don't stop at 5000!

[Superman]

At 5000 rpm, there is still at least 1500 rpm to go!

There is only one pimp in the pictures. I suspect this means you really do know how to throw a party.

Your methods seem sensible and I like your chances of a successful project. What folks are trying to tell you is that to properly rebuild a magnesium-case engine (like yours), there will be quite a large machine shop bill. All those case threads will need to be time-certed or better. The case needs to be trued align-bored, decked, etc. It is not unusual for a 2.7L rebuild to get into or near five figures ($10K).

Good used 3.2-liter engines are selling for $4-6K and 3.6-liter engines are not very much more than that. 3.6-liter engines make more than 250 hp right out of the box, before mods.

[pjv911]

Maybe you would like to gamble ? http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=1862433171&rd=1
In the event the auction motor has problems It would be good for parts. After using the parts you could sell whats left and likely get more money if all parts are sold separetely. Keep in mind that if you had a bad leak(exhaust) from the head you stand an excellent chance of having a damaged surface on the jug and head. Also this motor has the better valve guides and its a 7R case which is the strongest case for the run of magnesium cases.
If your feeling lucky maybe it will be a bolt in and go. It looks to be 100% complete and has the carrera tensioners ($400.00 value) to boot !

Kurt Williams

[jk911]

K C Moore,

Just answering your question about the circle in the picture. It is the cold start valve flange. If you put your finger in that (what looks like) an open port you will see that it is in fact blocked. It doesn't serve any function at least not in a 1974 2.7L.