To tint or not to tint... that is the question.
 

In the "hotly" debated A/C threads (see what I did there? amiright? amirght?), the subject of window tinting often comes up as a suggestion.

Historically, I have been against tinting.

1) I don't like REALLY dark tint that I see on a lot of cars (probably illegal here). Looks too gangsta for me. (With no disrespect intended to any gangstas. Flat-brimmed hats and 3/4 pants would look ridiculous on me.) However the 2 non-Porsche cars I own both have darker factory tint in the back. Not sure how much it is. Georgia has a law that limits the amount of tint you can have so I'm guessing 30% range is what a lot of factory tint is these days. That's fine for the back seats where the kids are, but seems too much for the front windows and you can't put anything on the front anyway. So it's a tradeoff between protection and look/visibility. Where's the line? I have no experience here so I don't know.

B) I frequently see cars where the aftermarket tint has turned purple and started bubbling and peeling away. It looks horrible. Problem is I don't know if this is inferior product or poor/improper application.

III) Is the problem with B) because of the heat & humidity in the South? I have noticed a common theme in the "how to remove tint" threads where a steamer is often recommended to remove the tint. That seems to suggest the reason I see so many cars with bubbling/peeling tint is because heat and humidity are the natural enemy of aftermarket tint.

I did some investigation on products and I came across a product from 3M called Crystalline that looks interesting. I like it because it is almost clear so it won't change the look of the car and it has a lot of UV protection.

I would be curious in hearing from people who have tinted windows with cars in the South. Do you have problems with the tint bubbling/peeling/color change? What is the life expectancy of window tint?

Also has anyone tried this Crystalline product? What's your feedback? Worthwhile or marketing hype?

As always... thanks in advance.

Not in the south but my 1995 LS400 had WA legal tint, professionally installed, from the get-go and still looks like new at 280,000 miles.

Purchased a used LS400 in Phoenix years ago and it had EXTREME tint. Owner said it was REQUIRED even with excellent Lexus A/C.

Our 1988 Carrera has WA legal tint, seems to help.

Willard, the million dollar question is the what is the reason I see so much bad tint. If it's just cheap product and lousy application, that is perfectly understandable and easily addressed. Hoping some folks will chime in though.

On a side note, since this Crystalline stuff is relatively clear I am seeing that people are putting it on the front windshield. I guess that's legal but seems iffy to me. Optical distortion is NOT something you want in your windshield. If there are any locals that have put this on their windshield (or anywhere else on the car) I'd like to see it in person. If this stuff works as advertised then helping prevent dash cracking and interior color fading would be a real benefit. One thing I noticed is that 3M requires you to post a product review to activate the product warranty. Seems a little misleading to me because right after you've had it installed would seem to create a bias in the reviews.

Can tint be applied over the rear window with defrosters?

yes, rear window tint is applied over the defrosters. a good installer will actually use heat to shrink areas of the tint to better fit the curved glass.

the reason you see purple, bubbled tint is due to inferior product and/or poor installation. it's not just due to the heat and humidity in the south. i see it up here in the northeast as well.

It's a requirement, not an option where I live. Just use the highest quality tint and installer and it will look good for many years.

It's pretty rare 3M lets me down. This particular product is on the list for the 911 eventually. I don't like the look of tint on it, but I certainly want the interior protection it offers.

I got the 3M's ceramic film put on. I think that is the same as the crystalline mentioned here.
Benefits over the older type is
a) very light visible tint, stops only small percentage visible.
b) very good UV protection, stops a large percentage UV.
c) probably most important to some folks - being non-metallic it does not impede cell phone signals!!
http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1403548087.jpg

UV blocking won't do squat to reduce heat - that's from the Infrared end of the spectrum.

That being said, I have all windows except my windshield done. I used a ceramic based film from Llumar. It's almost clear and is said to reduce thermal transfer by almost 50 percent. I can't vouch for that number, but it DOES reduce the level of heat in the car.

The manufacturer also has 'tinted' film that ranges from light grey to blackout with I creasingly higher levels of heat protection.

As for your question about peeling and discoloured film, I suspect it's probably from a cheaper product or poor installation:

I called a local shop that was listed by 3M as a certified installer and talked to them. They were pretty nice on the phone and answered all of my questions.

Roughly a little over $600 to do the car -- front windshield by itself is 1/3 of the price. The Crystalline product has a lifetime warranty and 3M will pay for the replacement if necessary as long as it is a certified 3M installer (doesn't even have to be the same shop). The shop recommended a 70 on the front windshield and a 35 or 40 on the rest. The numbers in this case represent the light transparency -- so 70 is twice as light as a 35. According to what I've read (and the dealer confirmed), the Crystalline product is relatively clear and is not available in the darker shades that come to mind when you think about tint. If you're looking for the security aspect of keeping people from glancing in the car, this product is not going to accomplish that. However, it seems to have superior thermal UV blocking protection.

The shop was pretty friendly and offered for me to come up and see some samples and we could hold it up to the glass to get an idea of how it would look installed. I asked about how it would work with the defroster and the guy said there will be places where the film will not stick next to the defroster lines and that there isn't much that can be done, but it all depends on how thick the defroster wires stick up.

I'm still not completely sold, but I'm seriously considering it. My theory is that you only hear about and notice bad tint jobs so I'm leaning towards giving it a shot after I get done with the other projects in the queue.

If any Atlanta Pelican has their windows tinted and is happy with it, I'd like to see what a good example looks like. I will even buy a beer or ten for your trouble!

Thanks again!

Hey tirwin, kulnga...mine had the tint when I bought it...it's been on there for 20+ years at least and still looks great...check out my car in the red car thread...pretty dark too.

Algernon, do you know what % tint that is on your car? I'm just trying to get a feel for how dark or light it looks. Yours is not too much in my opinion.

According to the 3M website, the Crystalline product is different from the ceramic. Quoting the product pages:

"Crystalline window films reject up to 97% of the sun's heat producing infrared light and block up to 60% of the heat coming through your windows."

"The Ceramic Series films reject up to 80% of the sun's heat-producing infrared light and 59% of the heat coming through your windows."

Sounds a little marketing-esque to me. Anyone care to speculate on the real difference between the products?

Oops, can't tell my UV from my infra red!
As I recall, the Ceramic transmits about 70% visible, but stops about 70% heat. It sure makes a difference, mainly I think from the back window. The color, such that it is, is a faint bronze-ish, and you can clearly see into and out of the car, with very little 'mirror' effect. I'll add a better picture...

What does the installer say about whether the rear glass has to be removed or not to make it look right? I checked into it a few years ago for my SC and they wanted to remove the glass, said it would not have a good, clean edge around perimeter otherwise.

No tint is my vote. Fishbowl ftw!

There's a decent chance they will break the glass taking it out. Most bodyshops even sublet this out to avoid liability if they break it.

Find a good installer...like paintwork alot of it is in the prep..
My guy did my Targa about ten years ago, he did the back glass in one piece and all looks great to this day..he definitely knew what he was doing..

ftw = for the win? Not fully my take.

On my 81 Targa with all the matt black trim, as like tirwin's coupe (an 83), the darker windows favorable set off the contrast nicely. Earlier 911's with brushed aluminum/SS trim not so much.

I had tint put in my Targa in 2006. FWIW, in the old days they had to cut the Targa tint into several strips per Bruce Anderson's book. In 06, the shop did it in one piece. Mind you, the firsts shop screwed the Targa window install up with 3M tint and said they could not do it. Took it (all my removed windows) to another shop and they had no problem. It was not 3M, unfortunately, I can't remember the name. I asked for the darkest tint that is legal.

Anyhoo.......eight years later, no purple, no bubbles.

I would really like to see tirwins windows removed for tint installation. But I don't know if $600 would cover this. Doubt it.

However, I am old-school and not up to date. There could be processes that are seamless without removing anything.

I'm just not a fan of tinted windows. Just my opinion.

Tint the windshield....NEVER! Is that even legal?

Both my 78 Targa and 88 Carrera were done years ago, 70% light transmissivity, did it to help the A/C.

Windshield tint....ONLY with 55W HIDs to make for the loss of night time forward vision.

Well the opportune time to do this was a couple of years ago when I had all the glass out to redo the interior but I wasn't thinking about it then.

I told the guy what kind of car it was. Said he did a '91 for a friend of his so it sounds as if he at least knows what he's in for. He said it's a flat rate based on the type of vehicle but he did say it would take longer than the average 2 hours.

That's the thing... Crystalline has almost no tint. There is some of course but from what I've read it is as close to clear as you can get.

Bob, $600 would probably cover the back window. And I wouldn't trust them to it. That rear window is a royal pain in the too-kus.

I would feel better if someone had done a few of these. I called one place that was 3 miles from my house. Figure I'll ride up there one day and get a feel for the place and look at samples. Naturally I would drive further to find the right installer.

I would only consider it if it was really clear and does not create optical distortion. Another reason to see it in person but why are the side and rear windows any different?

According to the reviews on 3M's website, people do get the front windshield done, so I asked the guy I called and he said it was pretty common for Crystalline installs but not other products that darken the color of the windshield. I did not ask about legality.

Actually, UV is exactly what you want to block. The greenhouse effect is due to the interior absorbing short wave UV radiation which passes through regular glass easily and then reradiates out as infrared which does not pass through the glass as easily. If you can find a "clear" tint that blocks 100% UV, you'll go a long way in keeping interior temperatures down.

Hguo

I did my 67 911 back in the early 90's but only in the back! I lived in Fresno and it was smoking hot all the time! In California they didn't allow it on the front windows, I don't know if that has changed! I also did it when the windows were out when painting the car so I did the bake on tint!
I loved it!
http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1403564658.jpg

OK, i just checked my ceramic 3M's tint. Cost me $270, lifetime warrantee, rear window cut perfectly, without removing glass. All glass except windscreen. Took about an hour. Hardly noticeable from inside, some reflection from outside, but no real darkening.
http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1403565404.jpg

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1403565479.jpg
I'm not 100% sure of the numbers for this product, but I could not be happier.
Looks damn good and keeps the heat down very well!!

Algernon,

That looks great! Thanks for posting.

I'll keep doing some research and let everyone know what I find.

Not one smidgeon of an issue.

This is a forum and anything subjective is wide open to personal taste.

Dialing in a warm up regulator, not so much wiggle room.:D

Go just a bit darker.

As my friend, the pontificating AC windbag says, with all the love I can muster, don't even touch the windshield. He is as right as rain.

Tirwin: At the end of the day, your dilemma will be decided by the question of whether window removal is necessary. Whatever misgivings you have about tinting will be magnified a hundredfold when you factor that in.

Of course, you've done it before, so it maybe the prospect of removing the windows is not that daunting to you!

If the glass has to come out again to do it right, I'm not doing it. It's that simple.

I'm a vote for window tint. Had my 911 (coupe) done years ago when I lived in Pompano Beach. FL. Car would have been almost undriveable six months of the year without it. It is important to go with a quality ceramic film and a skilled installer.

tirwin- Check out "GlassTiger" in Lilburn. I had them tint my M5 shortly after purchase three years ago. 35% ceramic (Ga limit is 32%). Very impressed with the job they did. Still looks like it was just installed. The four door windows, rear glass, and 5-inch windshield strip came in at $365.00 if I remember correctly.

I talked to a number of shops, did the on-line review search, and completely recommend them. It was worth the drive from Milton for me to get it done right. Made an appointment, and they had me in and out in a couple of hours.

I didn't want the look of tinted windows, but liked the idea of a cooler interior with my less than good AC.

This is with all windows tinted with Llumar Air Blu 80. It's a ceramic tint with something like (going from memory) 78% light transmisability, 48 - 50 % thermal energy blocking and 99 % UV blocking. If you didn't know it was tinted, you'd never know, it's that clear. It has a very slight blue colour that is noticeable if you if you put a piece on some white paper, so not that much at all. The installers did the installation in about two hours without removing any glass. That was four years ago and still looks as good as it did then.

I'd do it again in a heartbeat. It really does work to help with heat. If you leave the car sit outside all day in the sun, all bets are off.

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1403582604.jpg

An interesting (layman scientific) article about solar energy and window tinting in cars.

Science of window films (tints): What methods can we use to cool our car cabins? - Christopher Teh Boon Sung

i asked my guy if he wanted the glass out and he adamantly refused - said it was actually worse especially when it comes to particles getting stuck on it during application.
did my car for $200, glass in the car. no issues. a very light blue tint like previously posted would look tops.

Tint draws "crabs" from the constabulary. Which is a shame considering how well it works.

That attention has always put me off.

Bob,

I'm just doing homework. No decisions have been made on anything yet.

I found this video on the 3M Crystalline being applied to a windshield.

<iframe width="560" height="315" src="//www.youtube.com/embed/XwGtOkjDxQs?rel=0" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

Why do you both say don't put it on the windshield? I'm just curious what your reasoning is. If by TINT we're talking about changing the color of the glass (darkening like sunglasses), then I would agree with you.

BUT, if a product exists (and I'm not sold on this stuff -- only going by manufacturers claims at this point) that doesn't not perceptibly change the color of the glass OR cause optical distortion, but blocks the heat, then I'm open to the idea.

My thinking is that a reason to do this is to protect the interior. Ok, so if the car is going to be sitting in a parking lot for a long time on a sunny day, then one of those solar shade things will do the trick. But driving for the same amount of time is no different than sitting in a parking lot.

Here's an interesting article where a guy went to the trouble of actually testing it.

Testing 3M Crystalline Window Tint for our RV

Okay, I'm sold.. didn't know you could do this without tint.

The question is...have the windshield done here or in Olive Branch MS once the '88 gets there?

I can't believe I sold you on anything!

The 3M product has a lifetime warranty but it must be installed by an authorized 3M dealer. There is a dealer locator on the 3M website that I linked to previously. You can also cross-reference their reviews on Google, Yelp and Kudzu.

Edit: To summarize the claimed benefits of this product, you can apply it to ALL windows. Since most "tints" can only be applied to side and rear windows, you are leaving the windshield as an open hole to allow heat from sunlight into the car. Sort of like only insulating 3 of 4 walls of your house. It contains no metallic substances which could create additional path loss/dispersion in cell phone RF transmission. And if you don't like the idea of darkening the windows, then this is an option.