Whats the last year that straightpipes were on the 911? Handling of the short wheelba

[JBunkley]

What was the last year where the 911 had only straightpipes and no emissions equipment?
I want to know for California Emissions requirements? What are my options?


What are the practical differences interms of handling with a short wheelbase 911?
Are they less stable?
Do they spin out if you let off the gas in a turn?
Can they be converted? Should they be?
Is the frame shorter or is it just the position of the wheels?

[A Quiet Boom]

They can be converted to longer wheelbase but I believe you need to change the torsion tube as well as late model banana arms. Of cousre the wheel arches need move back as well but you could do that with SC flares. Never having tracked my car I can't comment on how my short wheelbase would compare to the longer wheelbase, I know Porsche increased the wheelbase to improve stability and handling but I wouldn't say the short wheelbase in unstable. FWIW

[emcon5]

By straight pipes, do you mean the early style 3 into 1 heat exchangers, like SSI's? If so, 1974 was the last year.

I'll let someone else field the SWB handling question, but if you are looking at a SWB car, you don't need to worry about smog. The last year for SWB was 1968, and currently cars up to 73 are smog excempt.

My personal opinion is if you have a SWB car, build a 911r. There are few enough SWB cars around don't make one less if you can help it.

Tom

[JBunkley]

Thanks for your responses guys.

Regarding emissions, even though there is no smog check in pre 73 cars I believe that you still have to maintain the original emissions equipment on the car to pass inspection. I apologize for my poor question.

What year did California require things like catalytic converters and all of those other things that detract from horsepower?

Bruce Anderson says that the engine displacement increases were only done to compensate for the loss of power due to emissions requirements. So could I purchase a 68 or 69 and not worry about the performance loss?

I pose these questions because I want a fun to drive car and if a SWB car handles as well as a LWB car then I have more options available to me.

I like the idea of the old reliable 2.2, or 2.4, Weber Carbs, regearing the transmission so that it feels like adding 50 hp and the satisfaction of doing the work myself. Still learning though.

Rather than butcher a car I'm educating myself through the good people of this BBS and zero in on what is best for me.

Thanks
-jb

[Wayne 962]

There's no California inspection for cars 1973 and older...

-Wayne

[rvanderpyl]

Porsche lengthened the wheel base to help the handling, however you have to remember that the tires back then left a lot to be desired compared to todays rubber. Not to mention that the sizes that Porsche put on were a lot different than what you can fit today. Original 1968's had 165-15 tires, in a bias ply with tubes. Today you can put on a 205-50-15 high performance, stickly tire and the handling will be completely different. I've tried all the 'bad' things you can do with a 911 during autocrosses and unless you really mess up (Slam the breakes on while wrenching the wheel over in a tight turn that you've overcooked) the car doesn't spin, or at least doesn't spin any more than a modern car would.

As for emission controls, I remember reading that the 68's came with an air-pump in CA, but that there was a dispensation made to allow it to be removed as it made the cars run so poorly.

So a question though, if you take a 68 and put in a 3.0 are you then subject to the air pollution testing that a SC would have to meet?

I don't know about that stuff as we have no testing for emmissions here what so ever.

[Superman]

I suspect that if it is a '73, you simply don't have to deal with emissions testing. Technically, you probably are supposed to leave the original engine and equipment in place and working, but if there is no inspection, then.....

I think it is quite possible to take an early car, like, say a '72, and put a big motor in it, like, say a 3.6, and add a bunch more performance parts and still never worry about emissions. Jack, have you ever heard of someone attempting this kind of civil disobedience?

[emcon5]

believe that you still have to maintain the original emissions equipment on the car to pass inspection.

That is the beuaty of buying a pre 74 car in California. There is no inspection to pass.

So a question though, if you take a 68 and put in a 3.0 are you then subject to the air pollution testing that a SC would have to meet?[/B]

Technicly, I think the answer is yes, but it really isn't relevant on a 68, because sice there is no testing, there would be no way for anyone to know. If you are interested, you can read the swap guidelines here.

Stick a mildly tweaked 3.0 litre engine in a 68 and do some weight reduction, I really think 200hp @ 2000 lbs would be a piece of cake. There is some 911R info in this earlier thread

Tom

[Early_S_Man]

R Vander,

Every 911 left the factory with radial tires! Except for those that left the racing dept. ... where bias ply tires were prevalent until '73-'74. The IROC cars were the first application of racing radials to sports cars ... Goodyear, of course! Anybody remember what Goodyear called the first aramid (Kevlar) belt fabric in a commercial that ran during the ABC IROC shows?

[Jack Olsen]

Superman, I would never violate smog regulations by putting a 3.6 into a 1972 911. Even though there is no way the state would ever know what I had done, and even though the 964 engine would pollute significantly less than the original powerplant it replaced. It would still violate the statute, technically, and I'm all for compliance with the regulations, no matter how silly they might seem.

(Now, in the case of a 1973 911... )