Can't Shift Into First
 

I am off visiting my parents 400 miles from home and took the 911 along. Great driving time! Unfortunately, I now find that I can't shift into 1st gear.

The other gears engage just fine, but stopped or rolling, first gear simply appears as though it isn't there at all. I didn't hear and bad noises.
There is no grinding when you try for first.

Is it possible a plate or something has moved and is preventing me? Or is it likely something more serious?

EDIT: Reference post on detents: http://forums.pelicanparts.com/porsche-911-technical-forum/173983-915-rebuild-questions-several-2.html

I would bet it's the linkage bushings that have worn out and need to be replaced and readjusted. Lift the carpet behind the seats remove the metal plate (four phillips screws) there will be a rod and coupling, wiggle the shift lever and look to see if there's any slop in the joint. There's more bushings under the front lever but I bet the rear is where the problem lies. You could limp it home carefully then repair.

if bushings were gone, you would probably have trouble engaging 3rd and 5th also, and feel a lot of slop in the shifter. does it go all the way into the normal 1st position or does it not want to go past neutral position? if the latter, the dog teeth on 1st may have broken off, allowing the syncro ring to expand and block the shift sleeve. if this is the case, you should not drive it any more because the syncro, brake band and stop dogs can get loose and go through the gears causing $$$$$ damage. there would be a lot of small teeth on the drain plug magnet too.
here's another "can't shift into 1st" thread w/pictures. good stuff starts @ post #111. http://forums.pelicanparts.com/porsche-911-technical-forum/159059-cant-shift-into-first.html

Thank you for the ideas JW and kodioneill.

There is no slop in the bushing - I took off the plate and everything is firm.

It does not go all the way into 1st. You can move slightly forward towards 1st, but only a few degrees. It does not move into the position where 1st would be.

Next step is to drain and check the plug?

If indeed it is broken off dog teeth, can I drain the fluid, get out the teeth bits, and drive it home without first gear?

Maybe. Total crap shoot how much damage is already done and what further damage may occur with driving it.

Sounds like I will be renting a UHaul to tow it home then. Further updates will come as the situation continues!

Have you lifted the boot and visually inspected the top of the shift housing? Make sure something isn't trapped preventing first gear engagement.

Sherwood

Did you lend your car to someone who thought one could DS into first at 20mph, or maybe went to third and caught first; DS from 4th, caught first? I hope it's something simple.

Lifted the boot hoping it was simple, but everything was in good order at that end. But, thanks to having 4 brothers on hand, it is loaded on to the trailer now.

My suspicion is that they went for third and hit first. Not sure what they may have done, but I didn't hear any bad noises. Got to the end of the road and 1st just wasn't there any more.

Car is back home and I am reading threads (thanks JW) and contacting friends to see who may be on hand to help with the pending engine drop.

Geez, always wanted to do this, but sort of wanted to do this sometime off later on.

They? Who's they? (Just trying to keep up here. :D)

Correct me if I'm wrong but I think it's common that when the clutch cable is old and starts to stretch, the first symptom can sometimes be that it won't go into first.

If you know how to properly adjust the clutch cable, tighten it a little and check again.

If it works, then replace the clutch cable before it pops.

I have a big family, so without giving away too much I can say that "they" are related to me.

I will look into how to do that adjustment. Its not something I am familiar with.

I drained the fluid after using some WD40-brand PB Blaster stuff. It worked fast.
I found a fair bit of thin metal shavings, and one gear tooth.

Inspection port will come off tomorrow and we'll see what else I can find.

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1408420675.jpg
http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1408420686.jpg

I am kind of surprised to only see the one gear tooth on the plug. I suspect I'll find more in the port.

Where there is one tooth, many are hiding inside the box. Your chance to learn to do a gear box. It will be fun, and expensive at the same time.

I took off the inspection port and had a look around. I found 1 more gear tooth, and some quite small shavings. I was sort of expecting to find more.

Now I'm moving on to disconnecting oil lines and such.

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1408493680.jpg
http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1408493720.jpg

that blue stuff isn't helping your syncros either.

The blue transmission fluid isn't a preferred type? I'm not sure what it is supposed to be.

This is what I run in my '79 SC:

Kendall NS-MP Hypoid Gear Lube AE 80W-90

I made that choice based on the wisdom and advice of a few professional mechanics I trust.

Found this: How-To: Porsche 915 Transmission Repair Tutorial Part 1 - Porsche Wiki

Thanks Peter - I think I will be well-guided.

Big morning!

The engine drop team! Its my first drop, but Arthur is the local expert and always ready to help the uncertain rookie.

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1408826922.jpg

The engine is out. She looks a lot bigger out of the car!

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1408826981.jpg

The transmission! I spent an hour cleaning dirt and grit off. Three brushes later, it was still pretty bad. So I hooked up the power sprayer. After soaking myself, I did accomplish a good clean. You know you are done when it's you getting the transmission dirty.

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1408827146.jpg

The workspace!

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1408827099.jpg

The motivational background!

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1408827178.jpg

I have the cap off and am ready to take off the big nuts. I read on the other thread:
"The castelated nut and the big nut are sometimes a bear to get off. You can put the transmission into reverse and a forward gear at the same time to lock it. For that you need to use a screwdriver through the access cover and push one of the shift rods until it engages."

I have the access cover off, and can see a selector fork (I think that's what it is) flipping around on its hinge. Any other details on how to do this in-double-gear setup?

Got it! I was pushing upward trying to pop it out of fifth. I had it set vertically.

Pop! Suddenly I realize I'm holding the R/5 fork and the gear has shot up above my head.

Smack! Ouch that kind of hurt.

I picked the gear up off the floor and examined it - no apparent damage. Then I checked my head. Didn't find any blood (although later I discovered a minor ding.)

After getting some help from my brother-in-law, we succeeded in putting her into reverse and 3rd at the same time. We also confirmed that we still can't get into 1st, although we can get into all other gears. Now I just need to remove the Big Nuts of Doom.

Use a breaker bar and it will come right off :D

So what is up with this nut on the main shaft? Part of the nut is bent into the divot in the shaft, and I can't seem to bend it straight with anything.
Should I just put the big socket on and push away, and let the leverage sort it all out?

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1408931701.jpg

You need a pretty small punch to bend it back out. Or a small flathead screwdriver you consider disposable. Wear safety glasses.

+1 use a sacrificial screw driver or flat head punch/chisel, just take care when doing this, don't mis-hammer to the gear. :eek:

BTW, did you buy/borrow the required jig to re-assemble the gear box? This plus shift fork alignment is quite necessary to insure everything is properly positioned/seated.

I tried another screwdriver without any luck. I can't find an edge in there to wedge it into. Whoever bent it into place did a great job. I'll see if I can find a good dentist pick too to work it more open.

I have a friend who might have one, he mentioned it a week ago and I don't think he's checked yet.

impact wrench. don't worry about bending the notch back. never heard of anyone actually doing that. then get a new nut.

Regarding the shift fork jig, it looks like its only $16 from PP (PEL-TOL-SFJ3) so I'll probably just get my own.

Thank you John, I'll just go ahead and impact it.

I just used the punch and punched it back for extra measure, PAG must have had a reason to do that in the first place, no? BTW, it takes allot of torque to tighten that nut.

Yeah, I'm not sure how I will tighten it when I get there. Most torque wrenches I can easily lay hands on max at 150 ft/lbs. I'll find something!

Breaker bar and a scale. Stand on the scale, breaker bar on the nut and horizontal around waist level. Measure distance from your grip to the nut. Say it's 2 ft. Press down on the bar and watch the scale. When the scale reads 100 lbs less, you've applied 200 ft-lbs. (100 lbs x 2 ft).

I think the toughest part will be securing the transmission so it doesn't move while you do this.

Mark

Go to O'Reilly or Autozone, they will loan you high torque wrench. Q'Reilly handed me a brand new one to use on my 915. They just charge your credit card for full price and refund when you return.

Good idea uwanna! They know me pretty well by now.

My old electric HF impact driver took both bolts off easily. I think this thing may never have been opened, all the bolts came off smoothly and there was no gasket stuff except a thin paper one.

Here's what we found.
This little chunk of metal kept me from removing the gear until I worked it out with needle nose pliers.http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1409012775.jpg

I saved this nut for last because it was hard to get to. When I got around to it, I found it was halfway off already. Yikes!
http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1409012831.jpg

Looks like 4 teeth are missing on the 1st gear (I think this is first - the gear on the 1/2 shaft).
http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1409012865.jpg


Two issues.
1) I still can't shift it into first even opened this much, although I can hit all the other gears (before I took out the last set of bolts).
2) I can't get the pair of shafts to slide out now that I have the last set of bolts out. The 1/2 shaft seems loose and ready to move, but the 3/4 shaft rocks slightly but seems stuck somehow.

Ideas? Pull harder? I was able to lift the entire housing by holding the two shafts and it didn't come free.

put it in 3rd gear first. then grab the whole works and wiggle it out of the diff housing. side detents out, of course.

That 1st syncro sure looks like it got hot.