60 row cooler and rs bumper

[MST0118]

I'm trying to determine whether a 60 row oil cooler will fit in a standard rs bumper without requiring modification of front tub sheet metal.

I've researched other threads here and the answer is not clear to me for a 60 row cooler. I see that a 50 row Earl's cooler will fit fine which is only 15.75 inches wide. The 60 row is about 18.5 inches wide excluding AN fittings and the rs bumper hole is about an Is about 19.5.

My motor will have about 300 hp and will be tracked so ideally looking for the largest cooler in without modifying tub. If 60 is too large, thinking of going with 50 center and adding a fender cooler in series but first choice is one center 60 row.

Let me know your thoughts on this.

[Trackrash]

Standard RS bumper? What year car and bumper?

[MST0118]

Gordon, it's a standard RS bumper purchased from GT racing and has the cut out for the front cooler. The car is a 72T that I'm turning into a 73 rs clone..

[911pcars]

I'd go conservative and plumb in that fender-mount cooler along with whatever fits into the standard RS bumper opening (not much). If it's too much cooler (I doubt it), the thermostat should take care of it, and it's fairly easy to block off air flow to fine-tune the coolness factor.

Sherwood

[MST0118]

Sherwood, I was thinking along those lines, too. I was just hoping thatvthe 60 row would fit because then I would likely not need the fender cooler which would simplify things a bit.

Mike

[TRE Cup]

the only way a 60 row will fit is if you cut the front tub and weld in an air duct. The original 73 RSR had to use one for the cooler to fit.
Sherwood is correct: 300 hp and just a small center cooler is not enough. Piggy back it with the fender cooler and you will be fine

[MST0118]

Thanks guys. Looks like serials coolers it is.

Last question is whether it makes sense to choose the AN16 fittings over the AN12. Thinking that AN16 might give better flow but not sure if that will cause other fitting issues.

[grizzfan]

I know many of you guys desire to get involved in "hausgemacht" solutions but all of your questions will be resolved by calling Chuck Moreland at Elephant Racing. You can look at their stuff on the web. Everything is included and you can probably strip out the cooler you have from the order after talking the fittings over with Chuck. All their stuff is "wide-mouth" and provides optimum flow.

Tom

[KTL]

The way to make any cooler most effective is to get forced air flowing thru the cooling fins. Be it a medium size or large cooler, you're doing yourself a disservice by not allowing the air to flow thru and behind the cooler by ducting it.

[TRE Cup]

Like these :

[MST0118]

I completely agree that ducting is the best way to go for the most efficient cooling (and those TRE ducting pieces look cool!!) but my preference is to not modify the tub if I can get away with it (keep engine cool).

Probably will have to go with a 50 row cooler behind the RS bumper, but just not sure if I am stuck with AN12 fittings if I go with an Earl's cooler (i.e, 25012 cooler) or if I can fit the larger AN16AN fittings/hose in the space with the 50 row AN16 cooler (25016 cooler). I did see that one person claimed to have fit a 60 row cooler in an rs bumper with AN12 fittings (26012ERL), so perhaps I'll just have to test fit different options.

[TRE Cup]

well, -12 an is the most efficient installation. -16 hose and fittings take up a lot of space. Whatever cooler u fit into a 73 RS bumper, will necessitate part of the cooler being blocked by the upper bar of the bumper. The space is so tight, that the most we could get was about 1/2" -5/8" gap behind the cooler. We wanted to leave a gap at the front for 1) impact resistance if the front bumper got a lil tap 2) space to install abs or aluminum sheet pieces to funnel all air going into the center bumper opening , has to pass thru the cooler< this takes some time to fab, but worth it

[911pcars]

Originally Posted by MST0118

I completely agree that ducting is the best way to go for the most efficient cooling (and those TRE ducting pieces look cool!!) but my preference is to not modify the tub if I can get away with it (keep engine cool).

Probably will have to go with a 50 row cooler behind the RS bumper, but just not sure if I am stuck with AN12 fittings if I go with an Earl's cooler (i.e, 25012 cooler) or if I can fit the larger AN16AN fittings/hose in the space with the 50 row AN16 cooler (25016 cooler). I did see that one person claimed to have fit a 60 row cooler in an rs bumper with AN12 fittings (26012ERL), so perhaps I'll just have to test fit different options.

I knew that Earls part number was familiar. Same one in my RS bumper:
Front center mount oil cooler for RS bumper/spoiler - Rennlist Discussion Forums

I used -12 fittings. -16 stuff is a little bulkier so I can't say. I'd trial mount the Earl's, then source some returnable -16 fittings (straight, 45º), even a ten foot -16 line for a trial fit. Are you connecting to the factory rigid lines or going all the way back to the thermostat/engine with -12/-16?

Dimensions: 50 row; 4" x 7" x 15 5/16", but one of my old posts suggested the most recent 25012 coolers might have different dimensions. Should confirm.

Sherwood

[MST0118]

Sherwood, I'm just going to the two rigid brass lines. I like your idea of finding returnable 16 fittings.

I'm currently getting the metal work done to the tub. I had just stripped the car to bare metal and had it blasted and powder coated locally, so I'd ideally like to fit the oil cooler in there while the body work is in process. Thanks, Mike

[KTL]

AN-12 is often said to be restrictive but in practice it performs well. A couple of our MotoDelta old racecars were plumbed with AN-12 hose and front nose coolers. One had a 3.3L carbed engine & used a medium size Mocal cooler in the nose, The other was mine with its former 3.2L carbed engine & a large Fluidyne cooler (thick, wide single pass cooler) in the nose. Both ran around 220-230 being driven hard (raced) on the track in hot weather. Both cars had makeshift notches in the tub right behind the cooler to at least provide a gap between the cooler and the body.

I am currently re-plumbing my entire car with AN-16 and I sometimes think it may be overkill. For a dedicated track car it makes sense and that's what mine is. For a primarily street-based car with the occasional track visit, I think AN-12 is fine.

[BoxsterGT]

I now have available "Direct Fit" AN-12 hose fittings to allow M30 hardlines to directly connect to AN-12 Oil Coolers as shown here.......







This allows a early street driven 911 to have additional cooling at front center when clearances are extremely tight w/o cutting the tub. And YES, even a 72 row Setrab cooler will fit the RS Bumper.

For info please email me only. No PM's, NO PM's.

Len at Autosportengineering dot com

[MST0118]

Interesting. Thanks for posting that info.

[rbogh901]

what did you end up with?

[MST0118]

I talked with my engine builder and what he does is fabricate and mount the 60 row earl'scooler an 16 oil cooler to the inside of the rs bumper. I am getting my car painted next month, so I will likely go this route which should also allow sufficient air to pass through. I'll post pictures of the modification to the cooler and how it is attached when I have it installed.

[rbogh901]

Thank you. I will look forward to seeing how it turns out as I also have a 72 (20 year old Glasurit BTW) and have been watching this kind of thing for options.