What would you do to a stock 3.2 to get 230 RWHP ?

[trader220]

I have a 1988 with 65k on it and I'd like some more power. Not looking at a track car and I would like it to be a useable sustainable motor. Current mods are M&K 1 in 2 out GT3 Style, M&K Pre Muffler, Steve Wong 93 octian chip.

Looking for suggestions short of swapping in a 964 or 993 motor. Assume a budget of not more than $7500 where I dont have the skills to do more than mid level work on the car.


My thoughts are that the 230 number is reasonably attainable? Am I wrong?

Carbs, cams ? ITB's ? Suggestions ?

Thanks

[McLaren-TAG]

You're probably at over 230 (at the crank) as is. Lighten the car, it's free and will give you a better performing car than eking out the additional 15 ponies you're looking to spend $7500 dollars to chase.

[eolson]

I'm not the most experienced, but based on what you've already done I would think you are close. Cams would maybe get you closer, or there. As I understand it, euro models have 230hp from the factory so it shouldn't take much. Depending on your VIN, maybe you've already passed your goal?


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[GH85Carrera]

Are you thinking 230 crank or rear wheel HP?

[trader220]

RWHP rear wheel HP

Going on a diet (car) is a on the list. Its never going to be a track car. I had reasonable expectation with the recent mods. I suspect we got a few more horses and a better range of power with the chip but I dont think it added 10 or 15 horses and I didnt expect it to.

I'd like to retain heat.

Thanks!

[emcon5]

98mm Pistons and cylinders, 964 cam.

[Geneman]

I started with an 88 C with about 81k on the dial.. .

I did 3.4 bore , 10.5:1 cams, big cams, redone heads twin plug, 46mm PMOs , 48 lb injectors, with EFI Electromotive , Twin Plug. 1/5/8 race headers (no heat) . and competition mufflers. This was for a track car build eventually but it stayed a street car in this livery for a year. (now a full blown race car) . In that configuration Louis Milone at KMR had it RWHP after tuning at about 270. I can send you the dyne sheets car likely weighed about 27--2800lbs then

It was great setup! Since then I have removed all the EFI stuff and installed 50mm PMO carbs, twin MSD ignition, with twin plug Dizzy. nothing else was changed.

Its monster..even faster than before and much easier to maintain tune..David Murry is doing final tune ob car in atlanta now and will dyne.. I bet its at least as close if not better. With the EFI, Louis claimed there was 15-20 more hp in there with more tuning.

(I built the engine myself, with help from some fantastic PCA guys in my region RTR..in their garage ..it only cost me couple cases of beer and some big plates of mainline sushi..!!)

I did the engine + EFI , along with some peripherals like solid mounts, upgraded fuel pumps etc.. for about 15K tops soup to nuts.

I see you are in philly so am i

BTW I have a PRIMO set of B&B headers with heat, and matching SS muffler, 2in 2 out. 1 3/4 Its perfect for a 3.2 will make it sound great and add 10-15 hp likkey in combo with a tuned chip from Wong. This is bolt ON HP and cool looking!!


emaill me and I will send you Pics.. good price on the sitting in my garage in Wayne PA.

We can install on my lift in a few hours so no labor costs My car is stored at sebring for the fall winter spring race season down there. at COTA in 2 weeks woohoo..

email me Cheers Frank rauscher@wistar.org

[McLaren-TAG]

Originally Posted by trader220

RWHP rear wheel HP

Going on a diet (car) is a on the list. Its never going to be a track car. I had reasonable expectation with the recent mods. I suspect we got a few more horses and a better range of power with the chip but I dont think it added 10 or 15 horses and I didnt expect it to.

I'd like to retain heat.

According to Steve Wong's chart (search the 3.2 exhaust thread (under construction) a bone stock 3.2 with his 91 octane chip gets you to 230. 240with the sport exhaust and pre muff, and maybe one or two more with the 93 octane chip. (I've never gotten any straight documentation on that though)

We're happy to get 93 octane on the east side. You're not far off from your goal already. I guess it's all a matter of where to spend the money to get the performance out of it and with a 3.2 it's a very diminishing return on investment once you get the basics of premuff, sport muffler and chip out of the way.

What I'm trying to say is given your comments of not really "feeling" it with what you've already done, you're not going to "feel" the additional ponies that will get you to 230 at the wheels. IMO you should have felt quite a bit of kick. I'd look for the general state of the car, make sure you're able to get WOT and look at the match of the 1 in 2 out GT3 muffler to your engine as it just may be too free flowing for what you've got.

[Matt Monson]

Budget? How "cool" do you want it to be versus manners?

[Adrian M]

I did. Steve Wong chip (correctly installed!), FabSpeed sport exhaust, re built heads and I'm dyno'd at 252 RWHP. I have to think you are pretty close if not there already.

[Adrian M]

Beautiful car BTW...

[scarceller]

My 87 3.2L pushes 230HP at the wheels here's the list:

Euro Motor
Web Cams 20/21 grid (But I'd probably use something else if I did it again)
Extrude honed Port Polished and flow matched intake
SSIs with 2in2out M&K pipe
My own MAF conversion with my custom chip.

Not much else was done but the cost to build this engine will run 12-15K these days.
Also, the MAF system accounted for about 5-7 extra HP above the SW prior chip with the stock AFM. I bought this car with the engine mechanics already done I spent conciderable time on the MAF system and the tune. Also be aware that this motor has some lo-load conditions that are real hard to tune out and although it's much better than when I bought it the car still exhibits lo-load and parking lot crawl surging and it can be very annoying. Other than this light load surging it's a fantastic street car but it's loud!

[scarceller]

252HP at the wheels? with just those mods? WOW! What was done to the heads? I have more done in my Euro and am no where near 252HP at the wheels with 15% drive train loss your in the 290HP at the crank range!

Originally Posted by Adrian M

I did. Steve Wong chip (correctly installed!), FabSpeed sport exhaust, re built heads and I'm dyno'd at 252 RWHP. I have to think you are pretty close if not there already.

[Adrian M]

CORRECTION!! 232 RWHP!!!!! Jeez, Huge Typo..

[scarceller]

That makes more sense. Even 232RWHP is a real good number for a engine with just those mods. Is it a Euro Motor?

Originally Posted by Adrian M

CORRECTION!! 232 RWHP!!!!! Jeez, Huge Typo..

[Adrian M]

Yep, Original BHP 231. However by the time I did my complete re build it was tired and not making that kind of power. Once complete the only mods were the the heads, back to bone stock but breathing MUCH better, the chip which made a surprising difference and then the FabSpeed which also made a surprising difference. Had it dyno'd after break in at 232 rwhp and it feels every bit that strong.. The real advantage to the Steve Wong chip however is how much stronger the motor is at lower RPM, 3,200 plus instead of waiting for 4k.. Oh, actually, light weight flywheel, pressure plate set up accounts for a few RW ponies too. Forgot about that in my original post..

[darrin]

how's your oil consumption? If you haven't had a top end overhaul yet and you're @ close to 1k miles per quart, you might want to consider factoring your $7k budget toward a top end overhaul and see how adding "goodies" (i.e. 3.4 p&c, twin plugging heads, etc.) would affect the top end overhaul price. A carrera engine can be expanded to 3.5 liters, but that would require cracking the case to modify internals.

[911SauCy]

Add 6psi of boost and you'll have: Much more than 230whp and a mild mannered car that comes alive when you want.

[Steve W]

230 rwhp is not impossible but everything must be just right including assembly, cam timing, and the right choice of components. There have been 3.2s built for club racing exceeding 250 at the wheels on a Dynojet SAE, (around ~290+ at the motor) and this is by rules with the stock cams, heads, manifolds, throttle body, and stock air flow meter.

My suggestion to get closer to your goal at a reasonable cost and without tearing into your motor is get a more optimized exhaust and air filter setup, some cams, and have the software custom mapped to your dyno data.

[greglepore]

Originally Posted by 911SauCy

Add 6psi of boost and you'll have: Much more than 230whp and a mild mannered car that comes alive when you want.

This. Howard, open invite to drive my .5bar boosted 3.2 anytime that you want. You don't need an i/c at that boost level, so you retain the stock tail and a/c if you want. Feels just like a normal 3.2 until you wail on it, then it scoots. Mine's louder than necessary and has a fair degree of intake noise on boost, but those are both avoidable issues.