Really hard to start Cold

[lost_intime]

I have 1982 911 sc It is really hard to start In fact now that it is really cold it will not start. Well it starts but then it only runs for a sec or 2 then it dies smells like it might be flooded. Not sure if it is or not , It is fuel injected so it's like I can't hand chock it. Does anyone else have these problem? It does start kind OF it will like start and run really ruff it will not throttle up at all and then it just dies again. Any help out there? Then it smells like it's flooded.

[ossiblue]

Probably too high cold control pressure, an air leak, or both, which leads to a too lean condition for a cold start. Every time the engine is cranked during a start, fuel is shot into all the cylinders at once--the longer you turn it over, the more fuel is injected--this is likely the cause of the gas smell.

Another possibility is a leaking injector which leads to flooding, or a problem with your frequency valve--is it vibrating? (BTW, I'm not familiar with the frequency valve as I only had early cars but I've heard it mentioned in other threads like this one.)

First step would to be to run a fuel pressure test and report your findings. Also, report the number on your warm up regulator. If you need help, just post what you need.

[Paulporsche]

How long are you cranking the engine? As LJ says you could be flooding or you could be lean!

You said it was cold. Where are you?

[dfhtrhjn]

Does it fire right away run for a seconds and die, or do you have to crank it a few seconds to start it?

The reason I ask is that your cold start valve should be squirting fuel in right when you crank. If it starts right away (even if it dies a second later) then at least the cold start valve is working.

Pumping the throttle will make your starting situation worse. Have you tried running the fuel pump for a couple seconds prior to ignition?

[porsche930dude]

If you suspect its flooded hold it floored and crank it dont pump the gas at all. it may take 15 or 20 seconds of cranking to clear it out. but for sure something is wrong. Also check and make sure the air flow metering plate is working properly not loose or gunked up and seating well

[ossiblue]

Originally Posted by porsche930dude

If you suspect its flooded hold it floored and crank it dont pump the gas at all. it may take 15 or 20 seconds of cranking to clear it out. but for sure something is wrong. ...

^^This does not work with a CIS system, and will only add to the flooding problem!^^

Fuel will continue to be injected into all six cylinders as the engine is cranked. Cranking a non-starting CIS engine for 15-20 seconds is a sure way to flood the engine, pollute the crankcase oil with raw gasoline, possibly destroy the cat, and lead to hydro-lock of cylinders.

The accelerator pedal has no effect on the amount of fuel entering the intake on CIS systems--the pedal only regulates the amount of air flow. The above advice works for carbueratted systems, not CIS.

[porsche930dude]

Well it works on my 82. maybe mine is just special. It floods when the battery is low and it cranks slow for any length of time. Get the jumpers on it and it wont start unless holding it to the floor. So yeah it just does

[boyt911sc]

Originally Posted by ossiblue

^^This does not work with a CIS system, and will only add to the flooding problem!^^

Fuel will continue to be injected into all six cylinders as the engine is cranked. Cranking a non-starting CIS engine for 15-20 seconds is a sure way to flood the engine, pollute the crankcase oil with raw gasoline, possibly destroy the cat, and lead to hydro-lock of cylinders.

The accelerator pedal has no effect on the amount of fuel entering the intake on CIS systems--the pedal only regulates the amount of air flow. The above advice works for carbueratted systems, not CIS.

Larry,

I feel the pain. After all the time and effort we have contributed to this forum about CIS troubleshooting, no one seems to bother searching for the solutions to their problems. Sometimes when I read your old posts and others including mine, they sound like a broken record (redundant).

This is one reason why there so many cracked air boxes. More than 50% of the air boxes I bought allegedly in good working condition were either cracked or broken.

Tony

[Bob Kontak]

Originally Posted by ossiblue

^^This does not work with a CIS system, and will only add to the flooding problem!^^

I kind of want to wrestle with respect. Just discussion. Mainly uncertainty.

Opening the throttle plate will let more air into the intake. However, with the TP wide open from mechanical foot mashing, can I see the air sensor lifting higher and pissing more fuel into the cylinders as a result? That's not so good.

I have started my 81 in the way back on horrid hot days in Houston by pressing on the "gas" in a cold start scenario. Cold start on a 105F day, though.

[ossiblue]

Originally Posted by boyt911sc

Larry,

I feel the pain. After all the time and effort we have contributed to this forum about CIS troubleshooting, no one seems to bother searching for the solutions to their problems. Sometimes when I read your old posts and others including mine, they sound like a broken record (redundant).

This is one reason why there so many cracked air boxes. More than 50% of the air boxes I bought allegedly in good working condition were either cracked or broken.

Tony

Well, if someone doesn't appear to have any idea on how to proceed and they seem to be newcomers, like the OP, I don't mind repeating things I've posted just to give them a direction in which to head. I know you do the same. In this particular case, if the OP responds as to how to follow through on any suggestions, I'd probably recommend a search and provide some topic terms to use.

As far as the post for starting a flooded engine, turns out it worked in a specific situation where the cause of the no-start (weak spark) was fixed and there was no backfire into the air box. The post, however, offered the technique as a general remedy for a flooded engine which I felt needed to be corrected.

[ossiblue]

Originally Posted by Bob Kontak

I kind of want to wrestle with respect. Just discussion. Mainly uncertainty.

Opening the throttle plate will let more air into the intake. However, with the TP wide open from mechanical foot mashing, can I see the air sensor lifting higher and pissing more fuel into the cylinders as a result? That's not so good.

I have started my 81 in the way back on horrid hot days in Houston by pressing on the "gas" in a cold start scenario. Cold start on a 105F day, though.

Hi Bob,

I can see your point about the wide open throttle plate and air sensor, and would concede that there may be a slight effect on gas delivery. I probably shouldn't have been so absolute in my statement about no effect of the pedal on gas flow, but my point was the continued cranking of a non-starting, flooded engine as an unwise procedure.

I'll take the 3 count and you get credit for a " pin."

[lost_intime]

I have found out that if I keep cracking it it makes it worse. I am in utah and it got cold really fast here. I Am going to pull the spark plugs and check them and then I am going to check the fuel pump and make sure it is all working. I guess it's a mater of hitting the right thing. I read somewhere on that someone else had the same problem. Has anyone else seen that post?

[47silver]

No magic bullet
You have to systematically check all components to solve this problem.
You need to get the tools. CIs gas pressure gauges, volt ohm meter and timing light as a minimum. If car starts when warm then I would rule out a timing problem.
Check gas pressures, check wur ohms, check cold start valve, check thermo time switch, do search to find how to check. Then check for vacuum leaks. Takes time to go these checks but relatively inexpensive.

[Bob Kontak]

Originally Posted by ossiblue

I'll take the 3 count and you get credit for a " pin."

Nah. Not even a take down since my statistical mass of relative experience is one event. I only got one point back then for an escape since I got it started without a clue.

Plus the scenario had to be a lean one. I bet my CSV was not firing given the heat.

[timmy2]

Originally Posted by lost_intime

I have found out that if I keep cracking it it makes it worse. I am in utah and it got cold really fast here. I Am going to pull the spark plugs and check them and then I am going to check the fuel pump and make sure it is all working. I guess it's a mater of hitting the right thing. I read somewhere on that someone else had the same problem. Has anyone else seen that post?

Try searching for CIS for dummies on this forum.
It will help you understand the CIS system and you will see there are usually no quick fixes that cure all problems.

Your questions and your responses to our questions will help get you going again.

You have a few of the most informed CIS specialists already responding to your post,
Take the time to read what they say and do some research on your own.

As Tony likes to point out there is no CIS system that cannot be made to work correctly. Testing methodically is the Key.

[boyt911sc]

Originally Posted by 47silver

No magic bullet
You have to systematically check all components to solve this problem.
You need to get the tools. CIs gas pressure gauges, volt ohm meter and timing light as a minimum. If car starts when warm then I would rule out a timing problem.
Check gas pressures, check wur ohms, check cold start valve, check thermo time switch, do search to find how to check. Then check for vacuum leaks. Takes time to go these checks but relatively inexpensive.

Lost_intime,

Follow the above suggestions to the letter. Most important is to verify the presence of ignition sparks. Without good ignition sparks, you can't make any engine start. And lastly, have a fully charged battery specially when the weather gets too cold.

Tony

[lost_intime]

I think it is still flooded checked most ever thing else. Does anyone know. What Is the best way to UNFLOOD a fueled engine is it by removing the spark plugs? Plus the air filter. It starts and then it is as if it floods again really fast. If it were warmer outside i would take it to the PORSCHE dealer (Send it on a wrecker) and have the big boys take care of it,. But i want to learn so if it does these again I can fix it in my shop. Not sure How to UNFLOOD a fuel injected Motor. Any help there at all. Not one that is in a really tight place like these one is.

[Bob Kontak]

Originally Posted by lost_intime

checked most ever thing else.

You have not checked everything else. You have not done one thing recommended.

I sound like a jerk but there are odd things in the SC that require some odd tools.

This requires work and thinking on your part.

Are you up to that task? It's not that hard but you have to be patient and steady.

[lost_intime]

I checked out the Fuse's they are all good, I check out the fuel pump it is working fine, I still need to check the spark plug's, I might need to check the pump pressure But I need a special tool for that. OO yes I have been checking out everything that has been put on here. It is taking time to check out everything but I am not going to give up. All the hose's seem to be in place and not leaking. It is a long process And trust me it is dam cold out there. I have looked for but haven't found YET the the breaker they is under the front seat. The one I did find is fine it is for the Fog lights. But i am still looking I will get it I hope.

[ossiblue]

Originally Posted by lost_intime

I think it is still flooded checked most ever thing else. Does anyone know. What Is the best way to UNFLOOD a fueled engine is it by removing the spark plugs? Plus the air filter. It starts and then it is as if it floods again really fast. If it were warmer outside i would take it to the PORSCHE dealer (Send it on a wrecker) and have the big boys take care of it,. But i want to learn so if it does these again I can fix it in my shop. Not sure How to UNFLOOD a fuel injected Motor. Any help there at all. Not one that is in a really tight place like these one is.

One thing to do to "unflood" the engine is to remove the fuel pump relay (the red one) as that will stop the fuel flow while you crank the engine over to clear the cylinders. You can remove each plug and dry it out then reinstall.