Money no object, which panels: steel, FG or CF?

[evan9eleven]

Like the title says, if initial cost was not a determining factor, what panel material would you choose if you were changing fenders, hood, bumpers and decklid for any reason on a street car? Assume that long term durability is more important then weight savings. I want to paint it once, not every year.

My gut feeling says steel, but if properly made carbon fiber is as good then it may be worth a look. Some have commented that the weave eventually shows through, is this true or only on poor quality pieces?

Finally, I came across an old post by TRE... they know FG and even so it sounds like a nightmare. (Note that I'm not saying anything negative about any manufacturer, just sharing info that I think is relevant here.) Post pics of Carrera RS replicas here...

[911pcars]

"if initial cost was not a determining factor"
".... for any reason on a street car?"

CF

[Bergo]

if steel parts are available, steel. If the bumper/wing/skirts/whatever you want are simply not available in metal, CF

[turbobrat930]

Ok.... I am biased on this one.... CF all the way!! LOL

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[JV911SYDNEY]

Cf

[gliding_serpent]

Aluminum

[Doug&Julie]

Steel. For strength and safety on the street.

[gostraight]

CF no question about it. steel second

[tijnes]

If weight is not important and long term durability is.

Use steel!

[Elombard]

Do the CF parts fit better than the FG parts? The steel is so nice it basically bolts on a fits, save a lot of time and potential for problems

[911pcars]

Aero devices made of steel. Really? That's beyond retro.

Review the OP's parameters, then imagine you're chief engineer with Porsche, Ferrari, Audi, Peugeot, etc., even GM and Ford. If you select steel, you'd be assigned to the vintage design dept.

MHO,
Sherwood

[evan9eleven]

Thanks for the replies. Sounds like good old steel is a no-brainer for fit and durability, though lots of votes for CF and it wouldn't hurt to lose some weight. No one said FG, so thats out! One thing is decided, the rear bumper parts (plural) will definitely be steel when I get this project going. Anyone know if there are early bumper corners that mate up to SC flares? Drives me nuts to see molded bumperettes in body color on a backdate.

I think I've looked at just about everyone that sells these parts, but I'll gladly receive recommendations for suppliers. Please: only parts you have direct experience with. Thanks!

[wayner]

I went with steel rear flares. I felt that from a resale point people would value properly butt welded steel flares. It was a lot of work.

On the front I went the easy route and just bought fiberglass flared fenders from MA Shaw. They bolted right on with no tweaking.

If I were to do it again I might just buy full carbon fibre rear quarters from MA Shaw/ Getty

[evan9eleven]

Originally Posted by 911pcars

Aero devices made of steel. Really? That's beyond retro.

Review the OP's parameters, then imagine you're chief engineer with Porsche, Ferrari, Audi, Peugeot, etc., even GM and Ford. If you select steel, you'd be assigned to the vintage design dept.

MHO,
Sherwood

I love your responses Sherwood, you never mince words.

FWIW, I'm good with beyond retro vintage, but if there is really good CF out there I want to know about it. Except for the rear bumper as mentioned above. I wonder where the Bugatti design chief got his CF panels for his backdate? I don't think he's a compromise kind of guy. Bugatti Head of Design's Personal 911 Project - /DRIVEN - YouTube

Edit: I'm not building a lightweight though...

[RSTarga]

He used Kevlar panels

[Evan Fullerton]

If your a composites guy, and want a factory level of fit and finish, none of the fiberglass or CF parts from the normal suppliers Getty/MA Shaw, GT Racing etc. are of that grade. Generally they pay more attention to the layup when you order the CF version of the part but they are still a wet layup, usually with a considerable amount of glass mat and polyester resin built in the same mold as the fiberglass version of the part.

For highend structural carbon parts constructed in a way that fully take advantage of the material with epoxy resin, a vacuum bagged or resin infused process and a quality core material if the part warrents it, built to the level of an OE part or what Singer uses will require going to a boutique manufacture such as CarbonArt or WEVO or a number of others at a price double or more then that of any of the more common bodywork suppliers.

For this reason on a street car any composite work is generally frowned upon because barring a few highend exceptions, they do not have the fit and finish or durability of steel parts. To make and instal composite parts at a level that elevates it over steel is a very expensive proposition.

[evan9eleven]

Originally Posted by RSTarga

He used Kevlar panels

Yes, thats true, I wrote CF by mistake. Bet that wasn't cheap.

Originally Posted by Evan Fullerton

If your a composites guy, and want a factory level of fit and finish, none of the fiberglass or CF parts from the normal suppliers Getty/MA Shaw, GT Racing etc. are of that grade. Generally they pay more attention to the layup when you order the CF version of the part but they are still a wet layup, usually with a considerable amount of glass mat and polyester resin built in the same mold as the fiberglass version of the part.

For highend structural carbon parts constructed in a way that fully take advantage of the material with epoxy resin, a vacuum bagged or resin infused process and a quality core material if the part warrents it, built to the level of an OE part or what Singer uses will require going to a boutique manufacture such as CarbonArt or WEVO or a number of others at a price double or more then that of any of the more common bodywork suppliers.

For this reason on a street car any composite work is generally frowned upon because barring a few highend exceptions, they do not have the fit and finish or durability of steel parts. To make and instal composite parts at a level that elevates it over steel is a very expensive proposition.

Thanks for the informative response... and great name by the way!

[911pcars]

Originally Posted by RSTarga

He used Kevlar panels

Most likely carbon-kevlar. The hybrid provides qualities needed for body panels.

[911pcars]

Originally Posted by Evan Fullerton

........

For this reason on a street car any composite work is generally frowned upon because barring a few highend exceptions, they do not have the fit and finish or durability of steel parts. To make and instal composite parts at a level that elevates it over steel is a very expensive proposition.

Sure, but I repeat the PO's parameters:
"if initial cost was not a determining factor" and ".... for any reason on a street car?"

It seems you're interjecting personal opinions which, in fact, may not be generally accepted; e.g. "any composite work is generally frowned upon ..... ".

Everything is a trade off between fit, finish, weight, cost, application, aero efficiency, cost, availability, ease of repair/installation/coating application, maintenance, longevity, etc. YMMV.

As for metal body panels, I would generally accept aluminum over steel for my ride. Porsche continues to weigh the pros and cons of possible materials and don't seem to be too hung up on steel. MHO.

Sherwood

[wayner]

What impressed me about the Getty / MA shaw parts is that they use a higher tech two sided molding process.

Incredible parts compared to other products that I have seen.