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Why oh Why do they let them rot??
Took these pics today. Sitting in the same wet spot for 5 years. Trying to save it now. :(http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1418240710.jpg
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Wow...just a shame
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There is a long hood 911 sitting outside in the driveway of a house a couple blocks away. It's been sitting there for 25 years! I approached him over 20 years ago just to take a look at it and he started yelling at me to get off his property. Someone else tried asking about it and he told them he was going to restore it....and to get off his property.
The location is less than a couple miles from the ocean and the salty "marine layer" has taken its toll. Such a waste. |
Wow, Italian specs, too. Do save it!
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And why do people leave their cars sitting over organic matter so the moisture rots the car from the bottom up. If they had only parked the car over pavement or at least some plastic sheeting it would probably have made alot of difference.
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You are saving it and thats what matters now.
The sad truth about many cars like this is they are not owned by pelicans (or the like). Owners like the community here at pelican are the minority. I often get a staunch reminder of this when running into guys on the street and ask them about their 997, only to get response "Im not sure what you are talking about, this is a 911 not a 997". Unfortunately there are many out there who buy cars like this for the status symbol, because their boss had it, or because they want to impress a lady. In the end of the day the car falls out of modern style and the reasons they bought it are no longer pertinent. The car then gets retired to a corner, or worse a wet field, and even worse the crusher. Maybe they ran out of money trying to fix it, maybe they just got bored of it and moved on there are endless reasons. We are all enthusiasts here and our ownership reflects that we cherish every minute behind the wheel of our Porsche not only because we are in a great machine but because at some point in our life we realized maybe there was more to getting from point A to point B than just getting from point A to point B. Just remember that without wet fields and dusty barns, there would be no Porsches for us to save! Regards Dave |
very well said Dave
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk |
For as many cars are out there rotting away...there are stories to tell.
My friend and I saw an ad one time for a 1954 Chevrolet...for $50...this was in 1971. We figured we might as well look at it. When we got there...the old lady told us it was in the barn (very dangerous looking structure)...but we had a look...and found a 1954 Chevrolet...Corvette! The old lady didn't want to pay for another line in the ad...so she just put down the basic name. My friend bought the car...with the provision...from the lady...to make the barn safe (pull it down). It took most of the day...with a big old tractor and several crawls into the barn to pull it down...he still has the car. The reason the car was there....nephew parked it...went away...never came back...not sure why. So in the end...the lady wanted the barn down more than she wanted to sell the car....BTW...she was asking $50 ! We gave her a lot more than that...and a flat barn so the kids in the area would be safe. He still has the car...very pretty...white with red interior....6 cylinder.....2 carbs on the side of the block. Bob |
"For as many cars are out there rotting away...there are stories to tell."
Very true, and yours is a good story. And there are many different reasons for doing what we do with our cars. Just because some of you have "gotten into" Porsches and chat away on this or other forums, don't assume some moral superiority and an obligation to "save" other people's cars. There is stuff sitting outdoors at my place that has occasionally been spotted by passerby. There is a lot better stuff in the barn. If you come on to my place uninvited to look, as has happened a number of times over the years, you are trespassing. I don't care how much you think you are special because you "know" Porsches, I will detain you until the sheriff arrives. They are my cars, not yours. I can do with them what I want. Sorry, I know its a bit of a rant, but I think some of you guys have forgotten (or never knew) that until very recently these were just old cars. Now guys act like they are national treasures and there is something wrong with the guy who doesn't treat it that way. |
Daves911L, I fully agree. It really makes me laugh when people write about being so sad about seeing a rotting old car. Well, if it is not mine, who really cares?
I have enough to worry about in my life to be concerned with someone letting an old car rot. LOL. Thanks for the reality check. Drama Queens, you may now resume. |
The rotting car can also be a memory of a loved one that used to own it. My grandmother drove my granddads car after he passed away and then when she got a new car due to the old car not running well she let it sit and rot in the drive way to keep his memory. He would have not wanted that but some people can't let go of things as easily as others. I for one am a partial hoarder and keep things for memory's sake. Slowly getting better at getting rid of items i don't want or need. Hate waste too so if a friend needs the thing I give it to them so it at least gets a home.
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Another factor is that until quite recently, a "normal" 911T of that vintage wasn't really worth all that much.
To many of us, the car is something special - something to be restored, well maintained and cherished - because of what it represents. But to many others, the cost and effort of restoring it was just not worth it. There are also those who figure that if they sit on an old car long enough it will be worth a fortune. What they fail to consider is that condition, rarity, and desirability together determine market value. And then there are the junk collectors and the lazy..... |
Hey, the more that rot away the more my nice one goes up in value!!
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While Daves911L and Chris bring up some great points of which I whole hardily agree, I think there is another side to this as well. I will offer some thoughts (not a validation of any sort) on why some of us feel this way about rotting Porsches.
We are in no way trying to say the person should not let the car rot, or that they don't have a perfectly valid reason for doing so as 82SC brings up, people have all kinds of reasons for doing things that some may find strange. The members here that approach the individuals with a car in this case are not out to do so in a malicious way, we are not trying to scold them for doing so nor tell them what to do with the car if they so chose to keep it that way. We are simply asking why, asking what course of events led to the car sitting there, and in some cases if they would be willing to get rid of it (or maybe even looking to get rid of it). Often times you simply get a cool story about a cool car (and generally a cool guy who owns it). Maybe he had is first date in the car, maybe the car is the only reason his now wife of 25 years turned her head and gave him a second look, an event that surely changed his life. As enthusiasts we value the rarity, uniqueness and specialty of these cars. One thing that many people often don't think about is the simple fact that they are not making any more vintage 911's. They are a finite good, a non-renewable resource and thus we as enthusiasts simply can not process why someone may let one rot in a yard even if they have a valid reason. I understand that some people simply don't want to be bothered and I can respect that, however I will remain confused, from a distance. Regards Dave |
I'm sure I'm not the only one with this story but as a young teenager I had a paper route that got me up early every morning and into the cold/rain whatever to put newspapers on my customers steps. One house had a boy my age who had a very nice BMX bike at the time, a high end silver colored Mongoose Supergoose and this was a bike I could only dream of. My paper route bike was a heavy, decade old hand me down always in between gears as I tried to climb hills (I know boo hoo).
This nice BMX bike would be laying on the ground even in the poring rain, not even the kickstand was up and it would not move for weeks sometimes in the summer. I wanted to stand it up and put it under an overhang. I didn't hate the guy, or think he was dumb-but the bike cost hundreds and I made less than $4 on a good week with tips, and there was plenty of time to do the numbers in my head while pedaling. and I did. Freakin all the time! He knew I went by it every morning delivering his familys paper, and I didn't know what sadism was at the time but that's what it felt like. He may have had many good reasons but you could not have convinced me of any at the time. I never touched his bike and I won't tresspass and look in someone's barn (thats just dangerous) but the start of this thread was bewilderment and besides the dead husband story above I'm not the only one still hard pressed to understand it because even before these cars became so valuable, they have always been Porsches. |
Cars like these are still out there; however, there are fewer and fewer. While in college I drove a truck for the county during my summer job. I remember making a mental catalog of the cars I saw that I wanted to come back and buy. Unfortunately, this was in the early 1980's. By the time I had the money they were gone.
Some of the ones I found are listed below. All were in fields, under sheds, etc. multiple XKE's Chrysler Airflow early '60's 4 door Lincoln convertible early '60's Lotus Elite 356's, 914's and early 911's VW's galore (including very early buses) Maserati Indy and 3500GT Lamborghini Islero More British stuff than I could count (big Healy's, Triumphs, MG, etc.) Those were the days! |
It's a waste of a good car, (any car), to let it rot away. It may not be MY waste, but it's a waste.
There's no harm in asking if someone would like to sell their car, since it appears to be wasting away. Of course, there's no excuse to trespassing either. I think the former can be accomplished politely without committing the latter. Nick |
Differences in opinions about this topic can clearly be defined by the fact some of us are very passionate about Porsches and there are some that feel a Porsche, even an old vintage one, is simply just a car. It is not a judgmental call on an owner, just why let something deteriorate into junk?
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Like Dave said and I have said this before... A large percentage of people who buy a brand new Porsche do so just because they have the money, not because they know or care about the car. That is even more so the case as the newer cars became more driver friendly. I saw a 964 recently with 17,000 original miles, but the door edges and seats look like they had 170,000 miles. The car was just driven around town and to the beach, but no care was given to how it was treated. Car enthusiasts are the only people who know or care about particular things. Maybe we are the crazy ones. Sometimes we are.
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Looks like that car is sportin Deep 6's...i think.
1973 911T MFI Coupe, Aubergine Steve |
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OK, after all this back and forth, did the OP make an offer on the car?
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Still waiting on an answer if she will sell it. She is leaning that way and I don't want to push too hard and have the door slammed in my face. ;)
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Good luck to you and hopefully you can get it for a fair price and do some good with it. I too can't stand it when people do this.
There's a guy in my old town that has an '88 red Corvette that sits in the driveway next to some paver bricks and hasn't moved in at least 15 years. I used to go running by there all the time and just shake my head thinking what a waste, still hasn't moved & hasn't even washed the damn thing off, EVER. :mad: . Yeah, an '88 Corvette isn't worth diddly nowadays, nor is it that great of a car in general, nor was it worth a bunch of money 15 years ago. Just the fact that somebody parks it, with some far-fetched intention of "fixing it up" but never even attempts to do so, really irks me. Get real or get rid of it why don't you? Having something like that hanging over my head & staring me in the face on a daily basis would drive me nuts. It drives me bonkers enough when I see other people doing it!!! In that same neighborhood not too far away was another guy with a '78 or '79 white 930. Thing just sat on the guy's horseshoe driveway never going anywhere for years, almost as long as the POS 'Vette. I didn't think much of it because at the time I didn't know jack about Porsche 911s. Then my great friend Mark bought an '86 911 and we learned a lot about the cars. He would drive by the 930 on occasion because it was right on the way to his in-laws house and he'd mention it pretty often. Finally Mark couldn't stand it anymore and he suggested we go over to the guy's house and make him an offer on the car. Now, this car was pretty rough. Always outside, never moved, probably a major basketcase. I mean, hell, the car had moss & weeds growing on it in some places!!! So we thought we could get it for a song and either part it out or fix it up enough to make it sale-able and make a little money on it. Well we made the first mistake of showing up in Mark's ultra clean & shiny black '86 911. The guy was a complete knucklehead and could clearly see we knew a bit about the 911 based on what we had to say and what we were driving. Oops............. I think we offended him, even though we weren't rude or disrespectful in any way whatsoever, and right then and there he decided he was going to keep it. Mark is a nice guy until people start dicking him around. "HUH? It hasn't moved in forever. Do you know if it even runs or can be started?" Mark said. Yeah, i've decided i'm going to keep it says the guy. I could tell right away, uh oh, now Mark's pissed. That's not good. This could get ugly, fast........... Well as luck would have it his wife happened to be listening to our conversation inside the house and said, "What????? You're going to keep it?!" He said yeah, I should finally get around to fixing it up like i've been meaning to & I just decided that's what i'm gonna do. He said this looking right at both of us. If she wasn't so pissed, I think Mark would have flipped out on the guy. She was pissed, we were pissed (what a wanker, just tell us nope not interested in getting lowballed by dudes like you) and within a week we never saw the car again. Wife probably threatened to kill him if he didn't finally get the dang car off the driveway, especially after two guys showed up at their door basically offering to take it off their hands no questions asked. People are just plain morons sometimes when it comes to "project cars" |
I have been fortunate to have been able to purchase many cars over the years that were "not for sale" to everyone else. It is a weird formulae I've worked out where you can't be too pushy but can't be too disinterested. If it can be bought, I should be able to do it. I am turning the heat up a little bit now and hope that there is a need for cash right before the holidays.
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For the majority of the human species we live in a throw away society, when things start to loose its luster it gets tossed. My older brother has been collecting Ford Model A's and Woody Wagons since the mid 1960's. He has three daily drivable Model A's. He maintains the drive train on them but has no intentions of ever restoring them. All the other cars are in a multitude of disrepair. To me it was always rusting junk but to him it is a gold mine of parts that he has collected and periodically sells for a descent profit. I remember in the early 80's he sold four brake drums to a guy who needed them for his woody wagon project. My brother did a one for one swap on the 4 drums plus $800 bucks. When the guy left very happy my brother laughed and said do you know I paid $25 buck for the entire car that those drums came off of. $775 dollars in profit and all he did was park it in his yard.
In my own case, I have a passion for Porsche cars but I am limited by what I can afford or store. My 80SC will be with me as long as I am on this earth and If I can afford it eventually I would like buy and restore several other makes and models i.e. 1970 VW bug, 1952 Chevy pickup, 1967 Camero SS convertible. I am a realist and realize that these are my wish list and these other cars would be projects and would eventually be sold. Only time will tell if I ever get to do them. |
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Because the side mirror is torn off? :cool: |
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Maybe the guy just moved it around back afterwards, so clowns would stop bugging him about it (I doubt Mark was the first). Might be sitting there still, donating parts to another 930 under the cover in the garage. You never know why people do what they do, and sometimes the reasons aren't what you think they are. |
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Anyone keeping a car on blocks for 10 years will have major issues in parting with it
Hoarding is a subtype of Obsessive Compulsive Disorder (OCD), and is a mental disorder. |
Well I certainly appreciate your perspective on what I shared. I know the type you describe and that was not Mark or I. So with all due respect you're way off base in our case. I was actually there (obviously) and witnessed the way it played out. Tried to share it as concisely as I could without writing a novel on it. We didn't arrive with a right-to-buy-the-car attitude. We approached the owner as two friendly DIY guys who knew what the car was and what it was worth in its existing state.
I gathered very quickly that the owner was feeling like we were there to criticize the car and insult him with a lowball offer. However we never even got to talk price because he instantly prejudged us based on what we were driving and what knowledge we were armed with. Apparently the car we drove and the simple questions we asked: >Does it run? Nope, battery is dead he said. Not surprising whatsoever.were more than enough to rub him the wrong way and send us packing. Just keep in mind that we didn't just arrive out of the blue knocking on the guy's door like a couple of jerks. Mark's mother in law lives nearby, knows of the people simply from living in the neighborhood for many years and asked if it would be OK for her son in law to give them a call about looking at the car. Owner was apparently OK with that, because we got a phone #, and Mark set up a time that worked best for the owner at his convenience. I tend to think that if the owner wasn't interested in speaking with anyone about the car, he would have simply declined the request. Instead he welcomed the visit on his terms. Upon actually visiting the car up close it confirmed my beliefs that it was immobile for years. Same flat tire, bunch of debris collecting underneath, dirt residue piling up at 6 o'clock on the wheels, cobwebs inside the wheels, massive rust buildup on the brake rotors, etc. etc. blah blah blah the list goes on. It had moss growing on top of the door sills, at the bottom of the rear window and on the rear spoiler. Might have been some weeds growing out of the dirt buildup in the vents on the spoiler if i'm not mistaken? White paint was dirt stained & oxidized from just sitting outside uncovered and baking in the sun all day every day. No, sorry, wrong answer Dave. The guy didn't just "move it around back afterwards so clowns would stop bugging him about it." Where we live is dense suburbia with semi-small lots and people aren't allowed to park cars in their backyards. Plus his yard is wide open and I would have seen it in the yard on my run route. Forgive me if I come across as being defensive. Well that's because I don't appreciate being labeled as some "clown" by simply inquiring if someone would like to sell their car that hasn't moved, or changed in any way, for years on end. We didn't approach the guy like some used car lot a-holes putting the pressure on to snag the car for pennies just so he could be rid of it. The owner chose to prejudge us based on the car we showed up in, based on the knowledge we had and probably based on our physical appearance (both of us physically fit back then) and he not so fit, all of which apparently rubbed him the wrong way? Too bad for you seller guy if you got a bad impression of us. It certainly wasn't on account of our behavior. We were friendly, not holier-than-thou and were prepared to make a decent offer given the condition of the car and how much work would be involved to make it road worthy again- a LARGE amount of work. But we never even got to talk price because he'd already decided we were not going to get the car for the aforementioned assumptions he'd apparently made about us. His home was rife with issues that supported the car's condition. Garage a complete disorganized mess packed with stuff, exterior of house in considerable disrepair, poorly maintained lawn and landscaping, wife flabbergasted that he wasn't willing to sell the car anymore, etc. etc. blah blah blah. I don't expect everybody's house to be a showpiece & everything to be in fantastic condition. Everybody's got their priorities, their own way of doing things and their own issues to deal with. I recognize that about people. For many years I have on a daily basis I dealt with numerous people in-person, whom i've never before met. They typically have an issue(s) they are required to deal with or be cited for code violations & be fined. They are always treated w/respect, regardless of their circumstances. Back then we treated this guy with that same respectful approach on our visit. Yet this guy chose to blow us off because he didn't like something about us and it was obvious to Mark & I. So we're somehow priceless/wrong for feeling we were treated unfairly after being allowed to look over his car? I strongly disagree. Mark was visibly upset, which he's admitted on occasion that he can sometimes take things too personally & doesn't take kindly to being judged or jerked around. I don't get all jacked up about that kind of behavior because i'm an easygoing guy. And you're exactly right that the owner's the guy with the keys and can decide if he's willing to sell or not- there's no entitlement to a seller regardless of how interested seller may be. But what I did take exception to is how he basically told us to get lost in a direct & cowardly manner. Fine if you don't want to sell it to us for whatever predisposition you've established against us. Oh well. Just say something like, "I don't think you guys are willing to pay what it's worth to me." or something to that effect. He was bold enough to look us both straight in the face and lie by saying he's actually going to restore it. Why not be boldly honest instead? Whatever. Good luck to ya fella in your "restoration" venture. I had a strong feeling his wifey is the one who truly lost her temper, and that's what got the car off the property (couldn't go in the garage- too much crap in there) once and for all. And don't worry guys. Pretty soon there'll be one less Mark around to muck with your skillful stroking of people to obtain their cars. Nowadays he's just clowning around on his deathbed with grade 4 inoperable brain cancer, along with the MS that got a strong hold of him ~5 yrs ago, just waiting for his time to be up here on earth. So yeah, I guess you could say i'm a bit defensive about my fellow clown of ~30 years? So there's the whole story. Aren't you glad I chimed in with my internet forum fed moral superiority & knowledge? :rolleyes: |
Just to play devil's advocate:
I think bc of all the car shows on tv and the "antiques road show" etc...there are a lot of people that think they have some museum Concorse car and have their car valued way too high. It takes the enthusiasm out of being an enthusiast. |
Move on, and look for another car.
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In high school I stared out the window across the street and watched a white 356 cabriolet in an alley start to rot for 3 years. Four years after graduation I asked if he would consider selling as I had friends and the resources to restore it and was rudely told NO. Sadly I watched the car deteriorate for another 10 years before moving out of town.
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In the early 70s I drove a tow truck for my Dad's service station. I would go out on service calls, pickup cars etc.
One call was for a very attractive flight attendant. She said her car wouldn't start again, and she was very upset about it. The car....a 1957 Jaguar XK140 Cabriolet was buried in the snow. I dug it out, and tried in vain to get it started. When I told her the tow charge for the car, I think it was $40; she said give me a hundred and you can have the thing. So for 100 bucks I bought it right then...of course. I remember it started up after it sat in the warm shop for a little while. White with black leather, and all that wood inside, even the top had the bows covered in wood. Wish I had it now :) |
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Ha. I bet the flight attendant still missses her 140..
If I had back all the cars I've sold... |
It took 10 years for the owner of these 356's to sell them to me. Two sat outside and one was inside the barn. Sad part was owner had stripped the car in the barn and stored all the doors, trunk and deck lid outside in the weather. We had to dig the cars out of the dirt because they sat there so long.
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orange 912
I have been driving pasted this orange 912, sitting in a driveway on a main road,
for 30 years... I have witnessed its demise ... rust is falling off ... I have stopped and knock on door over the years..... nobody ever answers |
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