Vintage 911 restoration question ('69-73)

[techweenie]

What are all of the parts I need to put the through-the-horn-grille driving lights on a '73 911? Where do I get them besides Ebay?

I've seen folks with templates for cutting the horn grilles, but will other lights (assuming the originals are unavailable) work?

techweenie

[Randy W]

The factory US through the grille fog lights are not too hard to find. The US driving light and Euro models are. There are also new Cibie lights availble that are close in appearance and work great. You can buy aftermarket wiring and relays new and the Porsche switchgear you need used. Having a shop make a set of brackets will cost less than $30. Do a search for "through the grille lights" to learn more.

[techweenie]

Great info! Thanks.

The car I just bought has the factory brackets in place, so I just need the foglights & cut horn grille. since it's a '73, I guess I can cut the black plastic ones...

techweenie

[Soterik]

Ok....

The 73 black grills came from the factory with the middle bar removed for the lighting...so, you can simply "cut" the middle bar out, and you'll be "correct"...though truly the chrome is still correct for 73....

The driving light Hella 118 came in only one version....with the larger diameter lens, commonly referred to as the European version.

The US fog came in one version, which is a clear fluted fog lens with clear reflector, and takes a 35Watt bulb.

The European fog came in several versions: clear lens clear reflector, clear lens yellow reflector, and multiple bulb type applications as well....supposedly a yellow lens version as well, though I have never seen one that wasn't a hand tinted version.

The main difference between the Euro and US versions (outwardly visual) are the lens diameters.....and the chrome rim widths. The Euro versions have a lens which is 1/2 inch larger in diameter, and then, of course, the width of the rim would have to be smaller.

As far as availability...they are all extremely rare....there is NO dealer stock of any light, either European or US at this time....not in the US, not in the North America warehouses, and not in the German system as well......I've had a cooperative dealer parts manager search every part number from 1965 to 1973.

I have to say, that I do like the Cibie driving versions, and saw the one on Dave Buhains car (MS RoadRace), and the light looks pretty correct, and gives out a nice bright light.

regards,
Eric

[rs911t]

Eric,

What was the size of the Hella 118? I've been looking at all sorts of lights, but most seem too large.

Greg

[Soterik]

The Hella 118 is 5 1/4 inches at it's largest diameter.

The European lens is 4 5/8's in diameter.

The US lense is 4 3/8's in diameter.

Regards,
Eric

[rs911t]

Thanks. I've been trying (failing) to find those numbers.

The Cibie Oscar is 180mm, or about 7". The PIAA 510 is 4" and expensive ($240/kit). The PIAA Classic 40 is 6 1/8" and less expensive ($170/kit). Those seem like decent approximations. Have you found others?

Greg

[Soterik]

There is a Cibie light that Dave Buhain at www.msroadrace.com has in stock that's very close to the original size....but I haven't measured them...but they look "right".

I have original lights on my car....

Here's my car with lights mounted.

http://www.pelicanparts.com/swapmeet_pics/R_Gruppe_02/Pic36.jpg

No...that's not me.....

Regards,
Eric

[rs911t]

Eric,

That is a BEAUTIFUL car. Thanks.

The red car behind "not you" has an odd (?) mount - I hadn't seen lights in that location.

My 1st owner had brackets made that fit thru the stock grill. For some reason, he installed rectangular Marchals. A some point I'd like to replace them, get a more traditional look.



Greg

[Soterik]

Thanks for the compliments......

The car behind mine belongs to Rolly Resos...and it's believed to be a factory prepped (at least it looks like it..!) rally car. Lot's of great rare items on the car....and it has never been restored.

The lights Rolly has, are the same as is on the hood of my car...they also mount where Rolly has them. Many French cars with those lights had them mounted in that position.

I think you might be able to use the mount that's in the pics....but ditch the rectangular lights!!!

Nice color by the way!...

Eric

[RPMClassic]

For a limited time, these kits can still be supplied SPECIAL ORDER. I'll try and post a pic to this message, or can email it upon reguest.

[rs911t]

Really? Where?

Greg

[GeorgeK]

I also have a few sets of these, lights only, including some rare "Italian driving lights" which are actually a fog pattern with the large diameter lens. I can sell them, but not too cheap,considering how scarce they are getting, especially NOS.

GeorgeK