Porsche's back door into racing

[Paul_Heery]

Last night, I had an interesting conversation with a team owner that campaigns two cars in the American Le Mans Series. He said that for mainly political reasons, we should not expect Porsche to enter the series with a LMP offering. We kind of knew that already. However, he did say to keep an eye on what is going on in Daytona Prototype. There are two privateers having cars built that use the Porsche engine. The engine is in the right place as well, the middle of the car. He believes that the Porsche factory might not be too far behind.

I've included some pics of the Porsche prototypes being built. One of the requirements is that the body use production headlights and taillights from the engine manufacturer. I've also included the ENGINE ELIGIBILITY AND APPROVAL LIST from the regulations. It looks like the Porsche cars may have some competition within their class. And, there is no mention of the engine from the Cayenne.

It looks like the 2003 season could get interesting.

APPENDIX A - ENGINE ELIGIBILITY AND APPROVAL LIST

1. The following engines have been approved for competition in Daytona Prototypes.
A. Type A engines
    1) Porsche 3.6L GT3R Flat 6
B. Type B engines
    1) BMW M5 V8 Engine - maximum displacement 5L, with stock
 bore (94mm) and stroke (89mm), maximum RPM 7000, with twin
 intake air restrictors of 1.200 inch diameter opening into the
 approved air box, and 11:1 maximum compression ratio.

2. The following engines have been identified as eligible for
 competition in Daytona Prototypes. These engines have not yet
 been accepted as approved engines.
A. Type A engines must be no larger than 4.35L. Engines up to
 3.6L are allowed a maximum RPM limit of 8600, and no intake air
 restrictors or compression limits are required. Engines from 3.61
 to 4.35L are allowed a maximum RPM of 8250, 11 to 1 maximum
 compression ratio, and intake air restrictors may be required. All
 type A engines are allowed a six-speed transmission.
    1) Audi 4.2L V8
    2) BMW 4.4 L V8
    3) Ferrari 3.6L V8
    4) GM 4.6L V8
    5) Honda 3.2L V6
    6) Jaguar 4.0L V8
    7) Maserati 4.2L V8
    8) Mercedes 5.0L V8
    9) Nissan 3.5L V6
   10) Nissan/Infiniti 4.5L V8
   11) Toyota 4.3 V8
B. Type B four-valve engines must be no larger than 5L, and two
 valve push rod engines can be no larger than 5.5L with a
 maximum stroke of 3.50 inches. All type B engines are required a
 five-speed transmission.
    1) Ford Mustang 4.6L DOHC Modular 4-valve V8 Engine -
 maximum displacement 5L, with a maximum stroke of 3.53
 inches, maximum RPM 7250 and 11:1 maximum compression
 ratio. 
    2) Dodge Hemi V8 two-valve push rod Engine - maximum
 displacement 5.5L, with a maximum stroke of 3.50 inches,
 maximum RPM 7250. Additional components and specifications to
 follow
    3) GM LS6 V8 two-valve push rod Engine - maximum
 displacement 5.5L, with stock bore (3.898) and a maximum
 stroke of 3.50 inches, maximum RPM 7250, with the stock LS6
 single throttle body (2.992-inch diameter) on the stock LS6
 approved intake manifold, and 10.5:1 maximum compression
 ratio.

[juan ruiz]

Very interesting..........

[URY914]

Go to FABCAR's web site (don't have the address) and you'll see 4 cars being constructed. #001 is the Brumos car and of course is P-powered.

[Paul_Heery]

Interestingly, FABCAR's web site has been altered to provide nothing but a blank page. http://www.fabcar-usa.com/

However, here are some shots of the chassis being tested.

[TRE Cup]

The front end looks a lot like the Lotus Elise FIA cars from a couple years back, don't they? . But these are tube frame/semi monocoque cars- to keep costs of construction and repair down

[Jgordon]

Is this NASCAR? or am I just ignorant about what daytona is?

WHy the hell would Porsche choose nascar over le mans?

[ZAMIRZ]

Originally posted by Jgordon
Is this NASCAR? or am I just ignorant about what daytona is?

WHy the hell would Porsche choose nascar over le mans?

This IS NOT NASCAR, lemme say that again THIS IS NOT NASCAR. American Le Mans series are cars that are eligible to race in the 24 hours and are built to spec with 4 different classes I think (prototype, GT1, GT2 and GT3) that run on American tracks including Daytona (not just the oval, they race through the infield on part of the course)

[TRE Cup]

What perhaps , JGordon , was trying to ask is because Grand Am is owned by the France family (which is essentially Nascar). The Daytona 24 hour is run to Grand Am rules and though the prototypes from yurup have run there in the past, GA is trying to build up a USA based field of these new chassis so the gentlemen racers (the bulk of Daytona's clients in the past) can race at reasonable (!!) costs. If you noticed there were no Audi prototypes at Daytona in the past.
In the past you had to buy a million dollar Ferrari 333SP to be competitive, so the France family thinks it has a better idea.
I doubt that these new cars will be eligible for ALMS racing either

[jluetjen]

But these are tube frame/semi monocoque cars- to keep costs of construction and repair down

While the rules may allow it, I don't see a stressed panel in any of those pictures. Note that the rivet spacing is too far apart to constitute a "stressed panel" (for comparison check out the rivet spacing on this Cheetah DSR.)

These are basically prototypes built to a NASCAR philosophy. No surpise there!

It's funny, I'd bet that someone could show up with a 906 and it would technically meet 90% of the rules! (It would fall short in such areas as fuel cell safety and intrusion protection which the aluminum panels provide). It would also be underpowered and lack the aero enhancements of the last 35 years.

At some level I've come to accept that the technology of automobile racing has outstripped a human's ability survive it. Basically, in the absence of rules, it is possible to build a race car whose performance could kill or injure the driver. Or at least death would be a certainty if there were any failure. Fighter plane designers (from whom motorsports gets a lot of technology) have also reached this point. Boeing or Lockheed can design a plane that will turn the pilot into jelly. This is why fighter plane designs have 20+ year lifespans. All of the meaningful updates are in weapons delivery and avionics until they can physically remove the pilot from the plane. As they get more and more advanced with the drone technology, don't be surprised if fighter pilots start to spend more time safely on the ground.

So back to racing. Nowadays Motorsports technology is about finding solutions within an envelope defined by the rules. It's true in F1, Cart, NASCAR and karting. If the rules say tube frames, I'm sure that there are an awful lot of clever solutions to be developed to make a faster tube framed car. I'm of the belief that the fun and entertainment is in the journey, not the destination.

[billwagnon]

Won't it be cool when the Indy 500 is run by full size RC cars?

[john walker's workshop]

jluetjen, any more pics of that car that show the rear suspension and frame better. i need ideas for my bugster project.

[masraum]

Wow, that prototype looking car is very sweet, but it looks more like something that would go in a sci-fi movie. I see the aerodynamics in the front, but it looks like it would create a ton of lift, and I don't really see much in the way of a normal splitter setup in the front. Of course, I don't really know anything about aerodynamics either...
Interesting.

And the chassis from Fab-car... now that's what I call a go-cart!

[cegerer]

"Is this NASCAR? or am I just ignorant about what daytona is?"

It's NASCAR's version of road racing. This is basically a 'spec-series', much like the IRL. By limiting RPM and leaving open the option of restrictor plates, these cars will all run about the same laps times after the sanctioning body 'fine tunes' them. Not my type of racing. -- Curt

[jluetjen]

John;
You want the DSR Forum . It is not quite as active as this forum, but if you want to build your own race car, these are the guys who have done or are doing it. BTW; DSR has really picked up in the SCCA in the last few years as the result of a number of customer chassis (like the Cheetah whose picture I included) and some pretty powerful 1 liter motor bike engines. I believe that there may be some links to the Cheetah web page at the DSR Forum.

If you are going to design a rear suspension, I'd also recommend Allan Staniforth's books Competition Car Suspension and Race and Rally Car Source Book . Both are widely available and include theory, lots of examples as well some case studies. There are also some shareware programs available (Check out RaceTech Magazine online ) for some excellent examples. The problem with the softwware is that you'll find that getting the answers is easier then determining what the answers should be!