180mph speedometer in 1980 targa

aldolente · 02-22-2006, 01:02 PM

My Targa has a 180 mph speedometer. It has English only markings with no KPH on it.
The guy I bought it from said the mileage was accurate. I had the title from California and the mileage seemed reasonable compared to what it had now accounting for the age.
I am concerned that the mileage is false as the '80 targa had a 85 mph speedo and the euro had the metric equivalent of 150.
Was the 180 mph speedometer an option?
I am an honest guy, how should I report the Mileage? It currently reads 182,000 miles.

masraum · 02-22-2006, 01:15 PM

Get a carfax for your car. Usually you can track mileage from inspections and registrations and decide if the mileage seems like it's inline or not. It could just be that your car had the 85 mph speedo and the PO sent it to Palo Alto Speedo or North Hollywood Speedo to get a different calibration/face put on it because the 85 was so ridiculous.

Markus33 · 02-22-2006, 01:16 PM

It's common for the old 85 mph speedo's to have been redialed. Two of providers of this service in California are Palo Alto Speedometer and North Hollywood Speedo.

If you don't have the receipt from the PO, it might be worth a try contacting these companies to see if they have a service record.

Good luck.

Markus
'80 SC Targa

Ken911 · 02-22-2006, 01:17 PM

Look on the back of the spedometer most speedo shops write the old milage on the back of the new one when it gets replaced if it was actually replaced

Bill Verburg · Bill Verburg's Garage

It wasn't an option but many of the US 85mph speedos were either swapped out or recalibrated.

C3s for one used the 180mph version at least that's what it becomes when converted from ROW to US

Richard C2S · 02-22-2006, 01:19 PM

My '81 had the 85 mph speedo when I bought the car. I found a nice 180 mph speedo and bought it. I photographed the original before taking it out tof the car and photographed the "new" one when I put it in. Although I don't anticipate selling the car soon, or ever, a subsequent owner can easily figure out how many miles are really on the car.

aldolente · 02-22-2006, 01:20 PM

The vin is the early version. It had the early 10 digit code. carfax and other services only start in 1981 when the VIN went to the larger format. There are no markings on the body of the speedo to reference either. If there was I could as the guys at the Speedo shops if they worked on it.
As the 180 mph speedo was before 1980, I think the car might actualy have less miles than whats on the odometer. Wishfull thinking!

Jason Cullen · 02-22-2006, 01:26 PM

Al,

Nice seeing you on the board.

Carfax is 81 and up. There is Cardex, its challenging to get the full history report.

I would match the service records to give an accurate milage report.

If you need a speedometer, let me know.

Thank you,
Jason

Jason Cullen · 02-22-2006, 01:28 PM

The Euro version has a Kilometer - The US Version has the 85MPH Speedometer.

Thank you,
Jason

aldolente · 02-22-2006, 01:39 PM

Hey Jason,
You interior pieces look great!
Heck, I am keeping the 180mph as it looks too cool! I am sending the guages to North Hollyweed to have white faces installed and calibrated checked for the 915.
I am just interested in what model Porsche the speedo came from. Ia m guessing and early American 930. I paid $100 for a certificate of Authenticity from PCA. I waited three months and then was told the factory had no records! I have no idea who the owners where. I want to do a binder with the history of the car and all records of the rebuild.
Al

fast_e_man · 02-22-2006, 01:47 PM

I also have a 1980 targa with a 180 MPH speedo.

I recently pulled my gauge set to replace the hideous red gauge faces added by the PO.

I was also perplexed by the speedo mileage until I discovered the 180 speedo was factory date stamped 1987. For my targa I learned the PO replaced the speedo with one from a 1987. I have no clue the true miles on my car, but since I did a 3.2L transplant that's not very relevent anymore.

You may find your targa's PO also swapped the speedo.

aldolente · 02-22-2006, 01:58 PM

It is a fact that all 180 mph speedos after a certain period had both english and metric on it. Mine has english only. The 87 one you have probably has both. The english only 180 speedo was before 1980.

fast_e_man · 02-22-2006, 02:30 PM

The 1987 180 speedo in my targa is english MPH only. Mileage on the odometer when I bought the car in 2000 was about 45k miles. I'm no expert on the subject, but with the 1987 date stamp & staking intact on the external screws I'm pretty sure I've got an english only 180 MPH speedo from 1987.

It's pretty easy to pull the speedo. Have you pulled yours to confirm date of mfg?

aldolente · 02-22-2006, 02:45 PM

Thanks for the correction. I am certainly no expert. Yes, I pulled mine and looked all over the back and sides and can find no markings. Was the information on a sticker or decal? If it was engraved, I can not find it. I will look again tonight.
Thank you for helping me.
Al

EdT82SC · 02-22-2006, 02:59 PM

You may have the original speedometer, but with the face replaced, and then the dial recalibrated for the new face. I had that done for my car by North Hollywood Speedo. The mileage on the odometer stayed the same.

fast_e_man · 02-22-2006, 03:07 PM

Al,

All of my gauges have what looks to me like a quality assurance stamp. It's a green triangular stamp that I'm guessing VDO QA stamped on the back of the gauge when they bought off or sealed the final assembly. The lower right corner of the stamp contains a two digit number that seems to correlate with the date of mfg. My other gauges had a "80" and my 1986 tach has an "86" in the QA stamp. If your speedo has been rubbed down with some type of cleaning solvent, It could have removed the green ink, or it may be faint.

Ed

fast_e_man · 02-22-2006, 03:12 PM

If your gauge face has been replaced the crimp on gauge face ring won't have a smooth factory compression. It will look like it's been pryed off and then recrimped. If your gauge face is original it should show no signs of having the front ring pryed off and re-crimped.

aldolente · 02-23-2006, 05:20 AM

I looked last night and there is a faint green triangle with 80 stamped in it. As my 911 is a 1980, everything seems to jive. If that is the date of it was made by VDO, then I am agreeing that a new face was put in.
Thanks for the help.

javadog · 02-23-2006, 05:54 AM

Al,

One way to get a better idea of what you have is to look at the part number on the dial. Tilt the top of the speedometer back and look at the small number engraved under the top part of the rim, under the glass. If it was originally a 180mph gauge, you'll probably find one of two numbers.

P/N 911.641.534.00

P/N 930.641.506.00

They were both used on the Euro Carrera 3.0 and 3.0 turbos. The difference in the two is that the latter one was intended for use on cars with 50 series-profile tires. Usage of these tires neccessitated a diiferent speedo calibration, as the rolling circumference of the tires was smaller than previous tires.

If your speedometer has one of these two part numbers, you may reasonably infer that a previous owner exchanged the original speedo for a later one. This was easily done and, as the 180 mph speedos were readily available from a number of after-market vendors, this was PROBABLY more common than having an 85 mph speeedo reworked, at that time. No guarantees, though.

Without detailed records of the car's history, it's impossible to know when or how the speedometer was changed. It's most likely that the original speedometer was replaced with a new, zero-mileage unit, as this was considerably less work than having the new speedometer set to indicate the original mileage at the time of the change. How many miles were on the car at this point would be a mystery.

It's also possible that the 180mph speedometer installed was a used one, with some mileage recorded, although this is probably less likely.

It's also possible that, if the later (930...P/N) speedo were fitted to the car and the larger diameter tires were used, the mileage recorded by the new speedometer would be MORE than the actual miles traveled by the car, since the change.

I don't know what a Florida title has on the back, for the certification of mileage, but in Oklahoma, you either certify that the mieage is correct, or is in excesss of the mechanical limits of the odometer (in other words, it has rolled over at 100,000 miles and started again from 0; this is not possible in a 6-digit odometer as in a Porsche) or the true mileage is unknown. If, when you bought the car, the previous owner checked the box certifying that the mileage was correct and you have no knowledge (facts, not suppositions) that this is incorrect, you are within your rights to claim the mileage as original. You may always state the true mileage as unknown, if you wish.

If it really bothers you, you can try and trace the previous owners untill you get to the guy that changed the gauge and ask him what he remembers.

As an aside to Ed, the probability is that your speedometer is not from a 1987 car; rather it is a speedo produced in 1987 and sold as a spare part, at some point. I am not aware of a 180 mph speedometer used in the later years. I believe they were all versions of the 170 mph unit.

JR

aldolente · 02-23-2006, 10:06 AM

JR,
Thank you very much for your help. I will check the guage tonight for the P/N. If you suspect Euro Turbos, would they have just english on them as mine does or did they have both KPH and MPH on the dial?