Understanding the Emergency Flasher Switch

[Taxi!]

Thanks, Mike. I appreciate your responses.

Jeff

[SpyderMike]

My pleasure Jeff. I may have another new Hella replacement as described at the beginning of this thread. I was sending them to people for the cost of the switch and shipping ( about $15 total) until my original order of 5 ran out. It just requires one wire jumper to function properly in our cars (see thread details). If you are interested, then let me know and I will arrange to go to my hangar storage and search them out.

Mike

[Taxi!]

Sure, I guess it can't hurt to have it in the event we're unable to figure out how to convert the wiring to a toggle switch. Please PM me your Paypal info and I'll transfer the money to you. Thanks.

[SpyderMike]

I will see if I have any left first - it may be a week or two if I need to head to the hangar.

[OffCamber00]

Originally Posted by SpyderMike

This is more like it I think...still suggest someone more knowledgeable checking this before imple menting.

I spent a couple hours on this over the holiday.

I used a DPDT - On / On switch. This switch has 6 poles with numbers 2 and 5 being common between the top and bottom halves.

In the configuration above, the hazards work as expected.
- Wire 30 (Constant power) energizes Wire 49 (Turn Signal Relay)
- Wire 49a (Turn Signal Contact) is ganged together with the L and R Lights

However, in the other switch position, the turn signal doesn't work properly - both L and R side lights come on when the stalk is flipped in either direction. This is due to having the L and R wires connected together at the switch.

The only two wires needed for the Turn Signals to work properly are 15 (Key Start Power) and 49 (Turn Signal Relay). But when you connect the L and R wires together on the same switch terminal in order to operate the hazard setting, then you will always get both right and left side lights blinking when you activate the turn signal stalk.

I tried multiple configurations on the switch but I was never able to get both features working at the same time.

I am going to attempt to get an 8 pole On / On switch to see if I can get this to work.

[SpyderMike]

That makes sense...thanks for trying and correcting it.

[Taxi!]

Yes, thanks. Still hoping I can add an aftermarket switch to my Rennline dash. I looked at my stock switch this afternoon and the difference between the switch diameter and the switch face is not that great, meaning if I decide to use the stock switch I have to be very careful not to drill too large of a hole. Fingers crossed that the 8 pole switch works.

[SpyderMike]

Okay, so this is more like it based on OffCamber00's experimentation:


49a connects to L + R ONLY when the switch is engaged. They are isolated otherwise and the normal turn signal switching is active. Good catch.

[Taxi!]

Originally Posted by OffCamber00

I spent a couple hours on this over the holiday.

I used a DPDT - On / On switch. This switch has 6 poles with numbers 2 and 5 being common between the top and bottom halves.

In the configuration above, the hazards work as expected.
- Wire 30 (Constant power) energizes Wire 49 (Turn Signal Relay)
- Wire 49a (Turn Signal Contact) is ganged together with the L and R Lights

However, in the other switch position, the turn signal doesn't work properly - both L and R side lights come on when the stalk is flipped in either direction. This is due to having the L and R wires connected together at the switch.

The only two wires needed for the Turn Signals to work properly are 15 (Key Start Power) and 49 (Turn Signal Relay). But when you connect the L and R wires together on the same switch terminal in order to operate the hazard setting, then you will always get both right and left side lights blinking when you activate the turn signal stalk.

I tried multiple configurations on the switch but I was never able to get both features working at the same time.

I am going to attempt to get an 8 pole On / On switch to see if I can get this to work.

Mat, any progress or update? Thanks,

Jeff

[OffCamber00]

As a matter of fact, I finally got my 3PDT switch today. Little bugger was hard to find.

I'll mess with it this weekend and post an update.

[Taxi!]

Hey Mat, any luck yet? Come on, man, I'm counting on you since you obviously understand electrical wiring far better than I do! (shameless groveling intentional) Did I mention I was born in Charlotte?

[OffCamber00]

Gents - sorry for the delay. I was able to get the switch working in the configuration SpyderMike diagrammed out above.

I ended up buying 3 switches since they were a b!tch to find online - if anyone wants one, send me a PM.

mat

[hcrubg]

I did this and it works perfectly
in fact I like the look of the toggle switch better than the flasher
had and extra thru body plug, wired the toggle direct

[Showdown]

Never mind… answered my own question.

[Simonrex55]

Originally Posted by SpyderMike

On my 1985...

The switch is a standard Hella 001579-09 which is today available as a 001579-11.





It has a mating connector attached to a short wiring loom. That loom is Porsche specific part number 911 612 014 31 I believe.

Once the loom is separated from the switch you can read the contact designations (from the top clockwise):



30 - power in from always hot bus; a single red/black wire going through the connector on the front bulkehead to fusebox 1 fuse 2.

49a - two wires - one black/white/green going to the turn signal/headlight dim switch, and another black/white/green through the connector on the front bulkhead to position 49a on the turn signal relay.

49 - a single red/white going through the connector on the front bulkhead to position 49 on the turn signal relay.

58 - a single wire listed as brown (but mine is white) with diode P/N 911.612.249.00 connecting through a single pin connector to the headlight switch position 58a.

31 - a single brown wire with faston connector going to local ground.

L - power out to the left side lights; a single black/white wire going the bulkhead connector.

15 - power in from the hot in start and run bus; a single green/red wire going through the connector on the front bulkhead to fusebox 1 fuse 8.

R - power out to the right side lights; a single black/green wire going the bulkhead connector.

The switch has a key molded into it to insure proper orientation during connection; you can see that near position L.

The loom connector simply pushes onto the switch once the key is aligned.

To remove the switch from the car, disconnect the loom from the switch and from behind the dash, squeeze the two plastic ears, and pull the switch through the front of the dash.

Great write up Michael. I just replaced my flasher harness. New turn signal and i don’t remember a diode. My emergency flasher works, but my turn signals are not. What’s the role of the diode here?
Thanks

Rex

[SpyderMike]

It looks like 58 lights the switch when the headlight switch is activated. A diode prevents reverse current...so the switch does not light up in other conditions...only when the switch is activated...most likely. I see my Haynes manual describes this as a "resistor"...that would most likely just dim the light in the switch.

You say you have a new harness...is the EF switch an old one or a new one?

From post 15, this is how the turn signal are power without the EFS engaged:

Originally Posted by SpyderMike

By the way, this would be current flow without EFS engaged:

[Simonrex55]

Originally Posted by SpyderMike

It looks like 58 lights the switch when the flasher is activated. A diode prevents reverse current...so the switch does not light up in other conditions...only when the switch is activated...most likely. I see my Haynes manual describes this "diode" as a "resistor"...that would most like just dim the light in the switch.

You say you have a new harness...is the switch an old one or a new one?

See post 15 above for the flow path of the turn signal power - green lines.

New harness. Almost all of them.
New flasher switch
New flasher harness
New turn signal switch
Old headlight switch

[SpyderMike]

Hmmm...On the above diagram focus on Turn Signal Contact (Switch). When the Emergency Flasher is not engaged, the current flows following the green path.

When the EF is engaged, the current can bypass the Turn Signal Switch via L and R terminals and the power comes from a different fuse 17 through terminal 30 on the EF. Check the wire at pin 30 on the EF Switch to see if there is voltage there.

If there is voltage there then I would tend to shift focus downstream...is the voltage at 49a on the Turn Signal Switch?

Originally Posted by SpyderMike

Here is my take for when the EFS is engaged:



When the car is not running, the flashers will work because power is available from terminal 30 (always hot bus). When the Emergency Flasher Switch (EFS) is pushed in, power is then taken from terminal 30, and all of the outputs L, R, and 49a are ganged together and powered by the flasher. When you activate the EFS the red current flow is in play. Power comes in from terminal 30, powers the flasher relay, which in turn powers the left side lights of the car, the right side lights of the car and the two turn signal lights in the dash.

The orange path to the left its the power to light the bulb in the EFS when the headlight switch is turned on so that you can find the switch at night.

When the EFS switch is not engaged, then power from terminal 15 (when the car is in start or run key position), power goes to through the flasher relay, but the outputs are not ganged. Power goes to terminals 49a and into the light switch to only power the car lights and gauge lights on one side of the car.

[Simonrex55]

I haven’t had a chance to chase why I'm not getting power, but i did jump 12V (switch side)to the green/black/white coming from the flasher to the turn signal switch. Flasher still not working with the switch, but i was able to get the left/right front/back lights to follow switch position to lite. I guess this is progress in trouble shooting.

Side note. I did learn my headlight switch has 1 set of male spades that are perpendicular to the switch housing and pics from the form are showing 2 sets of double male spades positioned perpendicular to the housing.

My ignition switch was modified to remove the steering lock (cut/grind/lock delete)

[SpyderMike]

If you bypass the flasher relay, the lights will not flash. That is the purpose of that relay. Bypassing the relay and seeing lights work means that downstream path works.

See if you have 12VDC at 49 on the relay, if you can. If it IS there and yet noting is coming out when you turn signal, then you are down to 49a run between the relay and the EF Switch or the Turn Signal Relay itself, most likely. If 12VDC isn't at 49 at the relay, then you work upstream from there.