anyone here *raised* their car?

[nostatic]

I know that SOP is to lower one's car to "Euro spec" or beyond, and I understand the benefits. That being said, anyone here actually raised their car above US spec, and perhaps slapped some big tread tires on? In other words, make a rally-type vehicle. I learned to drive off road in a dune buggy, and my bugs were always great in the dirt.

[cary]

There was a day you could buy safari struts. But if you couldn't find a set of used ones. You would have to have a set fabricated. I talked to Steve at Rennsport Systems ( last year ). Its something they could do. Basically, the spindle is lowered on the strut, I think.

Edit........that car gives me a woodie.

I've been trying to visualize a Pelican Parts 911 BBS paint and decal scheme.

[ZAMIRZ]

Something like this is cool and pretty streetable still, especially in this land of SUVs.

later,

amir

[RallyJon]

The Chizmas run a '73:



Specs are here: http://www.vintagerally.com/cars/chizm911.htm

[nostatic]

that S is waaay cool:

[cary]

RallyJon , does the 71 date stay fixed ? When / if will SCCA look at moving the date forward ? I'd like to use a 72 or 73 T. ( 125 hp so I keep it on the road, and keep the tire cost down. I remember one stage we used a set of tires, down to the cords in 11 miles )

I'd like to build a Rally car to run 3 to 4 events a year. Would like to run in the vintage class. Only because, I just want to have fun. But Production Class would be OK.

Where do I get the complete specs ?

I cut my motorsport teeth crewing in the beginings of SCCA Pro Rally. R. Dale Kraushaar. Who later co-drove for Rod Millen and won a couple championships. I spent many weekends driving from Portland, Or. to S. Ca.

Did John go from a Porsche to the Triumph ? I can't remember. Seems like there was another car in between.

Your car looks great. I've seen pictures of it before.

[RallyJon]

Cary, I'm not really sure about the vintage rally rules--I thought it was a sliding scale (30 years old?). Further, the SCCA rally department is in the middle of a big shakeup, which will likely result in more rule changes. Personally, I'd like to see the cutoff right around 1982, which really was the breakpoint between old-style, low horsepower, RWD rallying and the turbo AWD cars that started with the quattro.

I bet the Chizma's would love to hear from another potential rally 911! Send them an e-mail.

There's also a guy named Max Stratton who's run a few events in an '85 911. He's in the Northeast, but I don't know much about him.

[stormcrow]

Here's a good read

The Rothmans Rally Team Porsche 911 SC RS was the latest in a long and famous line of competition versions of the German manufacturer's rear engined sports car. The Rothmans Porsche of today still looks very much the same as the first 911 which appeared as far back as 1965, but underneath it's a very different animal.

Power, braking, road holding and handling have all developed over the years. Today's car was the ultimate rallying 911, but at the same time it's still very much a road car. The new rally car was in fact a modified version of Porsche's 1982/83 model, the 911SC. The rules of International Motorsport demand that a car recognized in Group B (where most rally winners come from) must be made in a quantity of at least 200 in a year. No problem. A rod here for Porsche, but the rules also say that the car must in competition trim then stay essentially the same. Major parts cannot be changed and so the rally car was in fact a fine-tuned version of the road car. However. the car that wins must be more of a ' supercar' with the sort of specification that might not be suitable for everyday use. Fortunately the rule of 'evolution' exists - if a manufacturer has come to the end of a production run of a model he can apply for recognition of a developed version of the car if he makes ten per cent (20) of the original homologation requirement. Most major teams in fact base their rally programmes around such cars.

With the ending of the three litre 911SC's production run in mid 1983 and its replacement by the 3.2 litre Carrera models, the way was open for Porsche to produce a 911 'special' for competitors. On January 1st, 1984, the 911SC RS received it's Group B homologation paper, number 207, from the Federation International du Sport Automobile - the world-wide governing body of motor sport. In off-the-shelf form the 911SC RS weighs in at 1020 kgs and as such was the lightest rally Porsche - mainly due to extensive use of aluminum for the doors, front fenders and luggage and engine compartment lids. Kevlar, the space age material loved by many of today's competition car builders, was used for the rear bumper.

The three litre, 'flat six, engine which has only two valves per cylinder delivers 255 bhp at 7000 rpm on Bosch electronic injection and drive was through a five speed gearbox with limited slip di f f erenti a] . The braking system was more than adequate for the job -with front and rear ventilated discs and four pot calipers of the same specification as the 917 sports racing car of a few years ago. The RS's suspension follows normal 911 practice with front struts and rear trailing arms, both with torsion bar springing. The rear system was developed from the 911 Turbo, something easily spotted by the extra-wide flair to the rear wheel fenders.

The transition f rom 'basic' 911SC RS to full rally car i s surprisingly simple. In the engine, an extra 30 bhp (to bring the total to a very respectable 285 horses) was found by removing the air filter element, changing the rev limiting device on the distributor and changing the road exhaust muffler for a less restrictive rally system. Closer ratios are fitted to the gear box and, depending on team requirements, the final drive gearing was lowered to allow maximum of either 214 kph or 199 kph at the new engine peak of 8000 rpm. A sintered metal clutch disc was also fitted.

Suspension modification are, like the engine, simple. Shock absorber settings and ride height are varied depending upon the type of rally (tarmac or forest) while the choice of tyre pattern also depends on the conditions that fact the driver, whether they be the scrub and sands of the Middle East, the tarmac of the Circuit of Ireland or the gravel of Mille Pistes. Suspension and engine mounts are also, of course, strengthened to meet the stresses of International rallying.

Next there's the safety equipment: fire extinguishers, seat belts and a full roll cage that in fact fixes to mounts already built into the body of the car. Finally, additions are made to the electrics: extra lights, a spare petrol pump, reading lamps and navigational distance recorder. From then on the Rothmans Porsche was ready for the road - and special stage.

Engine - Six cylinder, air cooled, horizontally opposed, mounted at rear driving the rear wheels. 95mm bore X 70.4mm stroke. 2996cc. Compression ratio: 10.3 to 1. Light alloy cylinder heads with two valves per cylinder operated by one chain driven overhead camshaft per head. Bosch fuel injection. Dry sump lubrication. Power: 285 bhp at 7,500 rpm.

Transmission - Five speed fully synchronized gearbox with oil cooling and limited slip differential. Gear ratios: 1st 3.182; 2nd - 2.187; 3rd - 1.600; 4th - 1.260; 5th - 1.000; Rev - 3.325. Single plate clutch with sintered metal disc. Final drive ratios: 4.375/4.174.

Suspension - Front: Bilstein struts with torsion bars. Rear: Trailing arms with torsion bars. Bilstein shock absorbers.

Braking - Twin circuit, no servo. Four pot caliper ventilated discs. Front dia: 304mm; Rear: 309mm.

Steering/Wheels - Rack and pinion steering. Wheels 16ins diameter light alloy in widths to inches. Competition tyres according to conditions.

Body - Steel body with front bumper, luggage and engine compartment, doors and front fenders in aluminum. Rear bumper Kevlar. Thin glass to windows.

Additional equipment - Full safety roll cage, competition seat belts, fire extinguishing system, additional lighting, navigational aids, duplicate fuel pump and ignition units.

Dimensions - Length: 429lmm; Width: 1750mm; Height: 131Omm;

Wheelbase: 2272mm; Front track: 1432mm; Rear track: 150lmm.

Weight - Dry: 1020k9s.

April 1984

[jyl]

Sort on point, I read this month that someone recently found one of the two works 911's run in the 1973 East Africa Safari, and is planning a restoration. Saw it in either 911 & Porsche World or GT Purely Porsche, not sure which.

I don't know if I'll ever be able to have an East Africa replica. But I can see an R/C version for Christmas . . .

[wckrause]

So how far can you raise the front without going to special spindles? I'm guessing you'll have bump steer issues if you go too high.

How about the back? Is there anything special done to the rear? What kind of angles can the CV joints take?



Here's a good video of Porsche rally racing

http://www.the-nurburgring.com/images/BOB.avi

[jyl]

I kept thinking about this thread and wondering - what would an East African Safari 911 replica be like to drive on the street?

I understand it wouldn't handle like a regular 911, much less a lowered R-Gruppe sort of rocket. But with narrow-ish tires and light weight, might it be pretty darn fun in a exhibitionist sort of way? Or would it pitch, wallow, roll and tip over?

Maybe a silly idea, driving a Safari 911 on the street, but you've got to get to the dirt roads in the first place.

As for the dirt, where - outside of organized rallies - could one drive a Safari 911 in a "brisk" manner? It would seem this would be a desert-road-gravel-track-logging-trail vehicle, unable to navigate a rocky, steep jeep trail or anywhere you'd put a 4x4 into low range. When I lived in SoCal I could've found lots of places to have fun with a Safari 911 - the desert, Baja, etc - but I'm not sufficiently clued into NoCal off-roading to know where you could drive such a beast.

Any ideas, please respond - I can't stop thinking about an early 911, raised with rally tires, skidplates, huge Hellas and an antelope catcher.

[eion]

Originally posted by jyl
When I lived in SoCal I could've found lots of places to have fun with a Safari 911 - the desert, Baja, etc - but I'm not sufficiently clued into NoCal off-roading to know where you could drive such a beast.

Any ideas, please respond - I can't stop thinking about an early 911, raised with rally tires, skidplates, huge Hellas and an antelope catcher.

There's hundreds (probably thousands) of miles of logging roads up here near the Oregon border - I've not been on them in my 911 (for obvious reasons), but I've been on many of them in jeeps and trucks, and I think driving them in a rally 911 would be a lot of fun.

[cary]

John, you might go looking for a Rally Cross. Same as A-X but on dirt and gravel.