ok, so how do I start?

[nostatic]

All this talk of trail braking has me back thinking I'd like to learn something new...like how to drive. The wife is asking what I want for xmas, and it seems like a 1 or 2 day course at a local track might be a good start. Anyone have experience with FastLane at Willow or Barber at Laguna Seca? Or is it better/cheaper to try and do a DE with PCA? Or start with autox? Or just find the nearest rice at a stoplight and drop the clutch?

Unfortunately due to familial responsibilities, I need something efficient. I'm not looking to race ALMS, just have some fun and learn a few things.

[TimT]

Try a DE with your local PCA chapter, or other drivig club to get your feet wet. Barber, Loos, Bondurant, etc schools are on the pricey side (I think about $1000 a day)

If you do a DE you will be assigned an instructor for your first year of events or so. Maybe you will be like my brother who attended a DE and decided it wasnt his thing.

The local club DE is the best way to learn something, meet some people, and see if driving on the track really is for you. It is also the best bang for the buck, a one day event costs about $100

[Superman]

Join PCA and go to the next autocross event. It's cheap and you learn A LOT about how your car handles in extreme conditions.

DE is a little more expensive and probably quite a lot more fun.

After doing these things for a while, I would think that organized, professional training would be worthwhile. In the meantime, just ask for an instructor when you are at PCA autocross or DE events. Instructors are available.

BTW, they say it is an illuminating experience to ride with an instructor who is driving your car on a track.

[Jim T]

Autocross is probably the cheapest and easiest, and a good way to learn car control, but . . .

track DE's are a lot more fun.

(Most AutoX courses are really, really tight - 1st and 2nd gear only. Challenging, good learning, etc. etc. etc., yes. But, if I were receiving a gift, I'd much rather take a 2 day course at one of the dedicated tracks. Its more fun, and you get organized, real instruction. You can get a good driver to go with you at an AutoX and get great tips (BTDT), but you are talking about a few minutes of disorganized instruction. Plus, you can always do an autoX, they are cheap and plentiful).

[nostatic]

I just renewed my PCA membership, but I find it difficult to get good info on events. I just switched over to the LA region when I moved, but their site doesn't have much listed. Maybe the next newsletter...

I'll have to try and go watch an autocross to get a feel for what goes on. I'm sure my son will think it is entertaining. I'm leaning towards the "all day wrap it up package" though, at least for a start.

[Jim T]

Call someone down at the SD Region. They have fairly regular AutoX's at Qualcomm.

Its a good event. One of the more wide-open autoX's around, you get well into third gear. And, the pavement is smooth and (relatively) easy on the tires.

(Also, if you drive down there, you might as well enter. It doesn't cost much, and you can just go at your own pace. Kind of a waste to drive all the way down there to just spectate).

[Superman]

Use of third gear in an autocross means you will be in or near triple-digit speeds. My car tops out at about 70 in second gear, and I'd only use third if I had a chance to go faster than that, for more than just a couple of seconds. I occasionally but rarely use third in autocross.

You should definitely not go watch an autocross. That's like watching someone eat lamb because you're thinking about doing it yourself. Just pay the $20 and scare the cones! An instructor can ride with you. Or drive.

Seriously, while I agree that DE would be GREAT fun, I'm asserting that autocross experience is hard to beat, if you want to learn to handle your car at speeds you're likely to need experience at. For example, you're going to find that your car pushes in turns with the power on, and that's going to surprize you because you're expecting it to oversteer instead.

Enjoy!

[Mike Feinstein]

I did my first PCA DE this past weekend at Road Atlanta. I'd done a TracQuest DE but the PCA program was in an entirely different league. First off, you have the same instructor for the entire weekend. You go from not having a clue in day one, to really getting a feel for taking the proper line at speed on day 2. Controlled drifting through 10A is an amazing feeling when you get it right. My "whooo-hooo" almost deafened my instructor (we had in-helmet communicators).

More importantly, you begin to develop confidence in your car. Early on I was apprehensive to brake late and give heavy throttle through turn 1. By day 2 it was becoming natural and well controlled as the speed picked up.

Bottom line...there's no experience like it. You WILL NEVER test the limits of your car and your skills on the street like you will at a DE with a knowledgeable and experienced instructor in your passenger seat (and in your ear).

Don't think twice....sign up, pay the fee ($285 at RA) change your brake fluid, slap on some numbers, strap in and have the time of your life.

[Todd Simpson]

My vote goes for DE. From a learning perspective you'll have an instructor in the car the whole time, sessions last 20-25 minutes and you should get 1-2 hours of track time for the day. If you mess something up, next lap you get another shot, then another. You'll learn a ton at your first few events, and it may sound strange but I think the pace is slower than an autocross. The speeds are higher but the corners are further apart and leave time for you to talk to the instructor and plan ahead.

[pbs911]

I went with Road One for my first. It was held at Willow Springs big track and I was able to do 3 hours of track time. MMarsh served as my instructor and to this day I still hear his words when on a track. A good qualified instructor is very important to learn and improve. The higher end DE event generally have fewer cars and more track time. The extra $$$ also keeps out the riff-raff (they tried but I still went ), especially if you are runnning in the beginner group because every honda with a coffee can muffler that thinks its a race car will be on the track at the same time as you.

Nothing like track time to improve your driving. Just a word of caution, be willing to devote 10-20% of all future income to track events and mods to the car after a DE event. They are just that much fun!

[DByers]

Santa Barbara PCA has an autox this Sunday at Camarillo Airport. Not sure how far a drive for you but might be worth it. I was planning on going down and watching for awhile with my 5 year old son in tow.

[Silveresrty911S]

Try the San Diego Region, there is one this Sunday. I'm debating on going also and just watching all the action and what it will take for the the next one on Nov. 30th. If you want to run in the AutoX you have to be at Qualcom Stadium by 7:30 latest or you pay a 10.00 late check in fee. I think the cost is 35.00 and you get at least 3 runs.

I might run down there around 8:00 - 8:30 and help flag and see my first one. Sounds like a good way to ease in on learning the way our cars are suppose to handle, maybe a D.E. soon.

Rick

[Jack Olsen]

Autotcross is a great way to start. You'll learn more from a few autocross dates than the same number of track days. But the track days are probably more fun.

PCA/LA does very little in the way of performance driving events. Out here, they seem to be a wives-and-wine group, more than anything.

PCA/Orange Coast Region does some great autocrosses, I hear.

The POC short track series would provide a weekend you'd never forget, with very good instruction, for not a crazy amount of money.

The next short track event is November 16-17.

[ttweed]

Originally posted by nostatic
I just renewed my PCA membership, but I find it difficult to get good info on events. I just switched over to the LA region when I moved, but their site doesn't have much listed. Maybe the next newsletter.

I think that's your problem- the LA region is the slackest in Lo Cal if you want performance driving events. You'd be way better off in Orange Coast or Grand Prix regions, or better yet, San Diego Region (yes, I'm biased). Go to http://www.pcasd.org/schedule/schedule.shtml and look around.

The SDR autox this next Sun. (Nov. 10) is in the Southeast lot, which is one of the smaller ones (there are 3 separate autox sites at Qualcomm). The West lot is the best one (next event there is Dec. 7th). We have thrown many 1-1/4 mile+ courses in the west lot that resemble a short road race course more than an average parking lot autox course. Several 90mph+ third gear straights are a definite possibility in that lot. I have been in fourth gear there on a time trial course. Many LA and even Santa Barbara people come down for our events.

If you want to go to a good DE at WSIR or Buttonwillow, check out http://www.tracquest.com/ They are not cheap, but first class on organization and safety (professional flag and rescue crews), no BS attitude, tons of track time, and good instructors (and good food!)

The only DE we had with PCA in this area last year was at the Club Race at Fontana, and you had to be Time Trial licensed at least to even get in it. Not a beginner's event. The POC will have their first school and Short Track Series events at Streets of Willow in Jan., which is another possibility. The next PCA-SDR Performance driving school won't be for another 6 months.

Personally, I think you should learn to walk before you run, and a few autox events before your first big track DE or school will give you a much better basis from which to absorb the instruction in your first DE, and make you much more comfortable in the car at the limit.

Good luck and good driving to you, whatever you choose,
TT

[autobonrun]

I bought the Vic Elford book on High Performance Driving from Pelican. It gives you something to do when you're not on the track and at least you'll be familiar with the terms when they're used. I read through it a couple times then went out in the garage and practiced some techniques like double clutching with the car setting still (with the engine off of course). Then the same week I participated in an autocross to put into practice what I read. I'll do this again several times next season including some DE events.

Bottom line is that nothing beats track time for improving your skills, but Vics book is an inexpensive supplement. Vics explainations of trail braking and other techniques helped me realize all the things I'd been doing wrong in previous events. I knew I was improving when my last two runs were the best of the day and within 1/10 second of each other.

Just my .02 worth.

[jpachard]

Nostatic, I would try an autox and see if you like it. It is a very good way to gain knowledge of your car. Something that folks haven't brought up is that for and 8hr. day autoxing you get about 2min of seat time whereas a DE you will get about 2hrs. I don't know how autox's are run out west but out east this is the norm for seat time vs. wait time. For me, my time is more valuable so I went the DE route. I also feel that while the speeds are greater, the ability to the same turn over and over really helps the learning curve. Autocross courses are typically changed half way through the day so you only get 1 min. on that particular course. Best of luck and whatever you choose have a blast!!

James

[HarryD]

I would say that both DE and AutoX offer a great drivng experience. You will go at higher speeds and drive for more time at DE but AutoX IS a timed competion so while the seat time is short, it is intense. I have been to 6 of my regions AutoX's and I enjoy the competion.

I think everybody who owns a car like ours should do a few of these events to understand how the car works. I have been trying to get my wife to join me as I would like her to experince what the car feels like at the edge of control (in second gear no less!), and how it reacts to brake and throttle inputs. So far, i can't get her out there but one day...

I would like more driving time but since I am learning a lot about me and my car every time out, I think it is worth the effort. I also like the idea that the risk of damage to me and my car is very low at AutoX as there are no hard things nearby and I am on the course by myself so no moving obstacles either.

I would suggest you try both and see with activity lights you up.

In my region, SCCA also offers AutoX (Solo II) and my PCA has mutual DE events with the otehr Marque clubs so I would trake so time to look around.

I have thought about the driving schools, but for my budget, I think AutoX and DE is the way to go at least to start.

Have fun. You'll be surprised at what you will learn.

[Don Plumley]

Todd - I'm in the OCR PCA and about all I do are Autox's and Krispy Kreme runs. I had my first three this year, not intimidating at all and lots of instructors to go around. The events are usually at Irwindale so it's not a long drive for you. PM me for the contact email, and you can check out their calendar here.

I hear great things about the SD region as well and plan to make it down to one of theirs also. [FWIW, when we hosted the Zone 8 Autox they were very complementary to our crew and how well it was organized to max track time.]

I agree with Jack that the track is probably more fun, and lots more seat time for the cost. My plan was to get half a dozen or so autox's under my belt before I headed out to the track.

See you out there!

[12own911]

Hey guys, I'm thinking about getting something like this for my boyfriend for Christmas and I wanted to know if you could help me with this? Do I have to be a member of PCA or one of the other organizations in order to register for the event? I'd also like to participate with him so what would be the best place to start? He's already said I could drive his car... (silly boy ) So knowing that he's never driven on a track and I've never driven his car, what type of event would be best for us?

Also, can anyone tell me how good the program is at Road America? Is it really worth the 2K fees?

Any help would be greatly appreciated. Thanks!

[HarryD]

Nostalgic,

Don't watch... Do...

Here is a testimonial from a 16 year old girl. http://www.oregonpca.org/Autocross/my_first_autocross.htm