Believe me I hope the finish is something i will be able to live with for awhile. I will be doing most of the work myself . My dad and i have painted many cars over the past 35 years and have the prep part down. I will pay a pro to spray the finish this time though. Dads 81 now and Im going to give him a break.

But make no mistake about this...You will want to make everything about the car nicer than it is when you purchase it. Whether it be immediately or down the road it will happen.

Heres what Ive put into the Targa due to a few things I couldn't live with.

And it only took me a couple days before stuff was really bothering me.

The black targa bar.
The mismatched paint on the front fender.
The cup wheels just did not look right to me.


Before:



http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1434305098.jpg

After:



]http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1434305733.jpg

OK, here's a report on the car I looked at yesterday. Here's the ad that I responded to:
1981 Porsche 911 SC Targa

Here is a link to some of the photos that I took: https://drive.google.com/folderview?id=0BxOfVdYgHkvmfnR4NlVpeUh0N1hNc1U4Q0h 5ZTlfSnRkNW9GWldLYWVrZzhWbl8tamdsbjg&usp=sharing

The owner lived in hamlet of about 200 people in the middle of corn fields, and had a lot of garage space. One of his garages had a lift, which was very useful in examining the car.

The body of the car looked solid. It was in CO before it came to IL. There was some surface corrosion on the battery box, and that was it. Panel gaps were good and even, and there was no indication that car had been in a collision. The paint, however, was pretty poor. It was a 10-foot, or maybe a 5-foot, paint job. It had been painted some years ago by the PO, and while it was shiny and mostly smooth, it was rushed and had poor prep. There was overspray on some rubber bits, and for some reason even the front smile had been painted (!) I could live with this paint job, but they only way to correct it, eventually, would be with a bare-metal glass-out job.

The interior was in very good condition. The sunvisors were sort of saggy and the headliner on the top was droopy, but this kind of thing doesn't bother me. The rest of the interior was in very good shape - seats, door panels, dash, carpets.

Mechanically, the car drove very well. I should qualify that by saying that this was the first one I had driven, so I can't (yet) compare it to others. But in basic vehicle-evaluation terms, it drove well. It started with a brief puff of smoke and idled smoothly, the engine ran well throughout the test drive, it tracked straight, there was no play in the steering, the brakes weren't grabby. The shifter is older-feeling than I ma used to - long throws (even compared to my Fiat) and I kept expecting the shifter to be about 4" behind where it was and reaching for air. the slot for 1st gear felt a bit vague, and there wasn't any lateral spring return across the gate to center it in the 3-4 gate. I don't know if this is normal or not. (The owner had replaced the shifter bushings last year.) It grinded briefly once going into 1st, but overall it shifted well. Required more deliberation than the wonderful shifter in my Sentra SE-R, less than the one in an old MGB with non-synchro first :) Overall it drove well and was a lot of fun.

The engine compartment looked good from up top. Clean, but not excessively so. The SC compressor had been removed but the rest of the system was there. There was no smog pump, and the cat had been replaced with a test pipe section (he had the cat.) There was apparently one oil leak, from the fitting on the line at the passenger side rear of the car. The lower valve covers were also pretty dirty, and obviously leaking or weeping something. Pictures of all this are at the above link. The car had a torn CV joint boot (inner right), which the owner did not realize until he put it on the lift. The car had good tires, and Bilsteins and Turbo tie rod ends. The airbox had been drilled out.

The big question mark for me was maintenance records, of which there were very few. The owbner had had it since about 2010, and the PO for many years before that, but there were only a handful of records. I think all three of these were from the 2006-2010 period from the PO (photos in the link.) Owner didn't know if the chain tensioners had been upgraded, nor if the head studs had ever been replaced, and there were no records to say anything one way or the other about those.

My overall assessment was that while the car drove very well, and had cosmetics that were good enough for me (a crappy repaint bothers me more than a tired original paint job does, but not enough to make me automatically disconsider a car) - poor paint but a good interior - the lack of maintenance history is too big of an unknown for me.

I don't know if head studs and chain tensioner are typically or can be checked during a PPI. It might be worth it, but I'm not sure. but absent positive confirmation, which would give me some more sonfidence, if not necessarily enough, it all leaves too big a question mark. Maybe the car will be mechanically fine for years without expen$ive repairs, or maybe something big will happen, but I don't have enough information to have much of an idea either way. On that basis I'm inclined to pass unless those big unknowns can be asnwered by a PPI. Even if I did make an offer, I think it would be lower than the asking price.

And, on general principle, unless it was really exceptional for my purchase parameters, I don't think I would buy the first car I looked at just on principle.

Your feedback - both on my assessment and on the photos - is welcome.

It looks pretty clean. Lack of any receipts is always a caution sign. Obviously it was a red car turned black. With a body as straight as it appears to be, it would need a magnet test (you shud start bringing cheese cloth and a magnet to every car you look at). The price for a car like that seems pretty fair. Junkier cars have sold at around the same price. Personally I would pass, but that's the paint issue I'm saddled with for the rest of my life. It looks like the car you want. But only you know..........................

Looks pretty clean to me too. Good condition interior, clean engine, low miles, fuchs wheels. Id say pretty fairly priced for what it is.

Its a perfect example of what happens with a poorly painted and changed color car. You'd be looking at several thousand for the bare metal paint which puts you just south of 30 grand once the dust settles.

I'm thinking someone will jump on it anyway at that price point but it needs allot of work and money put in to it. There's lots of Targas at 25k that don't need painting

^^^^^^ .....and have at least some receipts. The more I think about trhis,,,,who nowadays has a driveable Porsche (or any collectible) and doesn't have at least a couple dozen receipts?

The thing is that, despite the fact that it might need re-painting, it doesn't need repainting immediately. Therefore the purchase price does fit in Otter74's budget.

If a car has:
Immaculate paint - add $A,000
Immaculate interior - add $B,000
Immaculate engine compartment - add $C,000
Immaculate service history - add $D,000
No rust - add $E,000
No accident damage - add $F,000

If the only downside is the paintwork then the paintwork can be saved up for and the car enjoyed in the meantime. I think it looks really tidy FWIW.

Each imperfection makes a car more affordable.

I wouldn't have been able to afford to buy my car if it had perfect paint, bodywork and was mechanically perfect. It was a converted car (LHD to RHD) so whilst I would have loved a perfect one I couldn't afford it. Now I am slowly perfecting it... :)

Cheers, Neil

I'd take it to someone who knows how to revive old Glasurit paint. Use something like Dr. Colorchip for the blemishes and drive it. I like the idea of original paint even if not perfect. But that's me.

Yes, the owner told me in my phone conversation with him last week that it had been repainted from its original red. He showed me, for instance, the passenger door, where it looked as if some filler over door dings had been inadequately prepped and you could see some crazing; on the decklid, as the paint had shrunk over the years it exposed sanding marks; there were some runs in a few places (rear bumper, windshield header), etc.

I can live with all that, but it's the lack of receipts that gives me pause. Recently he replaced the shifter bushing(s?), fixed an inop driver's door window, gave it an oil change. The receipts in the photos I included were the only ones available. No way would I buy it without a PPI, but I am not sure it is worth it for this car. The CV boot needs to be replaced regardless, and are the oil leaks something to worry about?

By contrast, I have also talked to the owner of a 2.7 Targa (located far away from me, so I can't drive it) who is considering selling it - this car, in addition to having received a rebuilt 3.0 with updates around a decade ago, is visually rougher but mechanically solid and has records all the way back to 1975 or 1976. That gives me confidence. With this car, it seems like a crap shoot as to whether it will needs thousands in engine work within the next few years. A $5000 paint job? I don't mind that, because you can just not do it (my Fiat has had bad paint for a decade, and I don't enjoy it any less) But $5000 in engine work? That's what I want to avoid as much as possible.

The owner of this car is selling it because he is a motorcycle guy at heart and when it is a nice day he would rather ride one of his bikes (He also collects bulldozers!) and the cash from selling it would be more useful. He bought it because he had a 912 back in his 20s that he liked a lot. The car has not been driven much since last September (though, granted, in IL Thanksgiving - Easter is not nice-car driving season)

He told me I was the only person who had responded who was not a dealer or broker or calling from far away - he had a strong preference for selling it, even for less money, to someone who wanted to drive it. He more or less told me that if I passed on it he would have a friend sell it on ebay for him.

Scott,

I happen to like Cup wheels on older cars, but your car looks terrific in its "after" look.

+1^^ just need the chrome/polished door handles and you're all set!

Thanks!

It looks pretty good either way but I prefer the more period correct look of the Fuchs with their dish design. They're 15 x 7 and 8. If I had it to do over again Id go with 16 inch Fuchs. There just are very few 15 inch tires available in 15 inch staggered.

The 17 inch Cups are replicas and quite a bit heavier too. Less unsprung weight is a good thing and the car is way more nimble now.



It sounds like your making a very well thought out decision regarding the black Targa. Definitely dont let the possible sale of the car to someone else pressure you into a rushed mindset. new cars come up on all these boards every day.

Patience will be a virtue.

I was looking into having them chromed awhile back but never followed through with it and moved on to other things. Polished handles would tie it all together nicely.

Otter,

The 915 shifter has some neutral slop, but it should snap out of gear towards the center a bit. Compare to this:
http://forums.pelicanparts.com/porsche-911-technical-forum/845065-post-videos-compare-915-gear-box-shifter-play-slop-bushings.html

Did you like driving the car? How did it compare to other cars you've driven?

Interior is good.
Runs well.
Bad repspray with incorrect color.
No records.

As for the 2.7, don't assume that an engine rebuild means it's mechanically sorted.
There are hundreds of things on a car that need maintenance that do not involve rebuilding the engine block.


The question comes back to how much more you'd be willing to pay to remove the issues.
Is a $25k car for the same car with proper original paint and a stack of records a better deal?

At what "can't refuse" price would you drive there after work with a envelope of money?

Yes, I very much enjoyed driving the car! torquey :) the owner tended to short shift a lot; I shifted at Higher shift points. Thanks for the link - the shifter was like the stock one in the first video, so looks like that's normal. As for how it compared to other cars I've driven, I can't compare wit to other 911s because this is the only one I've driven.

While the poor prep aspect of the paint is annoying (actually, specifically the painted smile is annoying) it's something I can live with. It's really just the records that give me serious pause. I would consider $25k car with original paint and a stack of records to be a better deal - I think the confidence in the cars history that the history brings is worth a few grand. I think my "can't refuse" price for that car would be something like 19 or 20.

I spoke to the seller of the 78 Targa in Ontario last week and learned more about the car. I'm going to call the shop that's done the maintenance on it today. That car is worth my consideration, I think.

Also, one of my good friends from engineering school ran into his neighbor, an elderly man who owns an SC coupe, over the weekend and mentioned that a friend of his was looking for a 911. He said that he might be amenable to selling his, so my friend went back and gave him my contact information. He's owned that car long enough that he paid four figures for it!

Isn't this down ur alley???

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/porsche-cars-sale/872530-83-porsche-911sc-sale.html

This one caught my eye. Nice looking car for a reasonable price.

Yep! I wrote the seller.

^^^^ Atta BOY!!!!!

Call him, he listed his phone number in the ad!