Botched Valve Adjustment!!!!!!

[Sunroof]

It started off with being a pretty stinky day. I misplaced Waynes 101 project book (found out later-wife accidentally tossed it out). That feeler device everyyone was nuts over, including me, ( you know the one with the sliding friction lock), was TOTALLY worthless and now after what I thought was a successful mission, the car runs like a pile of s%$t!!!!!!!!!!

I tried to adjust the valves with that tool but the blades would bust like a craker. The little black handled tool with the screw on blades had a stripped screw, but I managed to get through three blades before it ate it!! I did the best I could to adjust under the circumstances, figuring they were all fairly tight (feel). Double checked my work too. Everything by the way was running perfectly before the tempted adjustment.

I put the whole thing back together and when it starts I have no power!!!! Idles okay, but begins to loose power at 2,000 up with increasing lack of power up the tach. I reset the points and that did not help. I playd with the timing, despite having no timing light (scribed a line around the locking nut and move back and forth abit to see if that helped.

Can one of you resident experts kindly tell me if I screwed the valve clearances up enough that this is always the end result? No power? The Haynes manual is glad to say that in their trouble shooting section. Or did I get lucky and have something major suddenly go wrong like an unhappy coil, fuel blockage or something really dumb.

My expertise goes so far here everyone, and my troubleshooting talent is just so good. I am afraid that if I start to dig into it, I will wind up with a floor full of engine.

I am about to give up!!!!

Bob 73.5T (CiS)

[bell]

calm down.....take a deep breath........and step away from the vehicle.
it sounds like the valves aren't closing all the way (remember...better to have them too "loose" than too "tight")
do not start the car or try to drive it until you get in there to readjust them. you do NOT want the valves hitting the pistons.....that'll just ruin your day completely.
goto http://www.pelicanparts.com/techarticles/911_valve_adjust/911_valve_adjust.htm
and print it out, then read it until over and over.
then start over and triple check everything once you're done.
my first adjustment i made a mistake while rotating the engine by hand to adjust one of the valves, i ended up making a "worksheet" so i copuld keep track of exactly where i was at in the procedure and checked off as i went along.
someone want to back me up?
my .02

[Doug Zielke]

Good heavens! Calm down, before you blow a "head" gasket!

I have coached several people to do their own valve adjustments since doing mine for the first time. Unless you live on the fringes of civilization, I'd suggest hooking up with a P-buddy who can help you one-on-one. Once you see how easy it is, you'll wonder why you lost your mind.

In the meantime.....do not continue to run the car until you re-trace your steps. Start over again, be patient, and follow the instructions you read to the letter.
You *can* do this. Yes you can!

[JSDSKI]

Bob, everyone screws up... take a deep breath. If the adjustment was going to destroy the engine - it wouldn't run at all much less lose power. It would just make expensive noises. From your Sat post, it sounds like the timing is out of whack and you need to start from scratch.

Option One: Search on the board for "static timing". DO THAT FIRST. Then redo the valves per the tech article. Don't try any shortcuts like skipping from side to side without turning over the engine to the correct mark on the pulley. Make sure you didn't use the advance mark as a TDC mark for a cylinder. (ask me how I know). Don't complicate the scenario by introducing new variables (fuel, ignition problem) until you are absolutely certain the only thing you worked on is correct. Redo the valves.

Option Two: Get an experienced PCA member over to help.

Option Three: AAA to a shop.

Remember, a "botched valve job" is just one that isn't finished yet

[sammyg2]

Adjusting the valves on one of these engines can drive anyone crazy. I've found that the little feeler gauge is almost useless on some of the valves too, but I use it to get one valve set just right and then set the others by feel.
I doubt everyone could pull this off and don't really recommend it, but I've been making my living repairing machinery for 22 years, I figure that gives me an edge.

As far as how it runs, I don't think it has to do with the valve adjustment at all.
In my experience a valve that is too tight (or burned) will have much more effect at idle and low rpm than at higher rpm. A burned valve will sometimes not even be detectable at higher rpms.
If your engine seems to stumble at anything over 3000 rpm I would suspect ignition instead of valve adjustment. Go back and check the plug wires (again) and make sure they are in the right place and are connected properly. Turn out all the lights in the garage ans see if you can spot any arcing. If the wires were old or marginal just the act of removing them can cause a short.
Check for vacuum leaks or small hoses that accidentally got disconnected.
Based on just the small amount if info I have, I would suspect wires first and distributor second. If there was a problem with the vacuum advance hose or the way the cap fit, it would act like you say. It is probably something really simple.
Good luck.

[tryan]

a set of go-no go feelers or a dial indicator would be better. you must hold the screw while the lock nut is tightened or you end up to tight/no power/burnt valves. recheck multiple times and you will get a feel( no pun ) of the drag when they are set right. good luck and enjoy the pleasure of doing it yourself. everything is frustrating the first time if you don't get it right.

[Vipergrün]

Originally posted by Sunroof
That feeler device everyyone was nuts over, including me, ( you know the one with the sliding friction lock), was TOTALLY worthless and now after what I thought was a successful mission, the car runs like a pile of s%$t!!!!!!!!!!

Hmmm, interesting, I purchased this tool as well and found it to work EXCELLENT! Much better than the other tool. Make sure you have about 3/8" of the steel tape bent at a 90 degree angle to the end of the tool. Having either too much or too little tape can make it a challenge. Coat the steel tape with a bit of oil, that helps as well. Remember, the sensation of proper clearance is as if you were dragging the steel tape over a magnet, just slight resistance.

Luckily, a valve adjustment is not permanent and it you can do it as many times as you like.

I don't think I would have attempted the adjustment without a book or document to reference. Did you *have* to adjust any of the screws a lot? Are you sure you got the proper cylinders as relating to the 120 degree pully marks?

Drink a beer, relax, think the process through in your head first, and go for it again.

[Early_S_Man]

Bob,

First of all ... there isn't ANY danger of blowing up the engine, or valves hitting the pistons, so stop worrying!

Your valve clearances are probably too loose now, and that can cause a loss of power.

My recommendation is to use the factory P-213 tool, with the screws Loctited in place!

Mark the three timing marks on the crank pulley with red or yellow paint in the notches: Z1, Z2, Z3 ... 120° apart!

Go thru the valves again slowly and methodically, and be sure there is some drag on the feeler gauge as pushed into the gap at the ignition firing point, TDC!

[john walker's workshop]

you have to use the tool gently. you also have to develop the technique by doing the job repetedly. there's nothing wrong with the tool, you just need more practice. i've been using it for almost 30 years and it's far better than the midget one.

[Rot 911]

Like the others said "calm down." Next, quit fooling with the timing. By now you should know it is just a bad valve adjustment. The first one I did on my 72E I ended up with no compression on #1 cylinder! Of course I went to this board and got the reassurance I needed to go back and get the job done right.

[speeder]

Bob, First off, if car ran great before you started, don't play with the timing, or anything else. Leave it where it started. Valve adjustments on these cars are actually pretty challenging for a first timer due to lack of accessability and the fact that it is all done by feel, ie. you cannot see the gaps for the most part. I had been doing adjustments for years on other motors, so I know the correct feel, but still found it to be a new experience on first 911. I could do my 6 cylinder BMW in less than the time it takes to remove valve covers on a 911.

Best possible advice would be to get a fellow Pelicanite or PCA member down your way to come over and lend a hand. If I was local I would gladly do it, it's not a bad job at all once you know what's up. You should definitely invest in another Porsche book or two, keep them in the garage or somewhere where they won't get lost or tossed. Good luck!

[Drago]

Originally posted by Sunroof
I tried to adjust the valves with that tool but the blades would bust like a craker.

I found the same thing happening. Then Island turned off my dumb light by suggesting to temper the steel a bit before bending it. Works great, now.

[john walker's workshop]

any feeler gauge will break if bent at too acute an angle. bend it back over the tip without getting too carried away, slide the collar back, push the blade back in as much as possible, tighten the collar and bend some more, takes practice, but when you get better at it, one bent end will last you for multiple valve adjusts.

[Drago]

New project eh? My brother is into the 23 window buses. I'll see if he knows of anything.

What's the status of the bugster? Made much progress since the swap?

[john walker's workshop]

marc, the bugster is a winter project. too busy this summer. i have a 21 window bus that i'll restore if i can't find a decent 23. if your brother knows of one, i'd be interested. possible sell/trade for the 21.

[Elombard]

Yah its a pisser when somehting like this happens, I think the most frustrating thing is all of the oil you have to throw out!!

Where are you in Atlanta. I have 101 projects and two feeler tools. I have only done a couple of valve adjustmets but if you are close I will come by and help. I am thinking you got the engine in the wrong spot (not at 120 deg.) Let her sit for a week and we can try it together.

[Sunroof]

You guys are great..............Group hug...................

My wife was reading the responses and recommended something for my neurosis through this with good results........I went out to my sailboat, sat and watched the fall colors and had a six pack of Mikes Hard Lemonade! Afterall, "Tomorrow is another day".

Very interesting responses, but I have decided that my back, neck and patience has had enough and the flat bed is arriving in the a.m. to carry my old joy away to the expert resident mechanic who I know will put it all back together.

I can say with pride that I painted the valve covers succesfully, cleaned the oil tank, got every drop of oil out of her, cleaned up the engine compartment, and yes I did follow the procedure, but I blame my inexpereince on the failure. I remember doing my valves on my British cars and that was cake, but number 6 and 3 is a pain in the butt! In fact that feeler guage itself is a pain in the butt!! Maybe it will turn out I did knock something loose. I had to get around this massive AC condenser bracket, a web of injector lines and bad lighting.

I will report back to you when I know precisely what I did wrong............

Thanks for the shoulder
Bob

[bell]

you can adjust valves without losing oil by jacking up and doing one side at a time. but i would suggest to get the actual task nailed before you adjust this way (it's good for getting that 1 valve that's off).
for future referance

[makaio]

Don't give up! The same thing happened to me when I attempted my first valve adjustment. You can do this man. Find a fellow Pelicanhead in the Atlanta area and have them help you. I know there has to be at least one that can help. Come on guys, help this fellow owner out.