Elephant or Tarret spring plates

JohnJL · 06-09-2015, 07:09 PM

I am looking for 1, rear pivot height adjustment, 2. threaded toe adjustment and 3. rod ends all around.

The car has coilovers and is pure autocross. Is there any difference across the Elephant and Tarret versions? The Tarret version pivot height adjustment looks in one pic like it might be 2 holes, while the Elephant version looks like it has 3 slots?

Anyone care to share experience and opinions on these 2?

Evan Fullerton · 09:29 PM

The Tarett version you show is produced by ERP (Eisenlohr Racing Products) and is superior to the Elephant product in it's one piece design, larger hyme joint, greater weld area at the spring plate to hymn lug joint, and nickel plating instead of cad.

The Tarett/ERP part only has two holes because it is produced as a left and a right part. The center hole is for stock inter trailing arm pick up points. The higher hole is for cars that have had the inner trailing arm pick up point raised in the chassis as 935s were done.

winders · 06-09-2015, 10:27 PM

+1 for the ERP parts sold by Tarett.

Ira Ramin from Tarett and Cary Eisenlohr from ERP are the best in the business!

proffighter · proffighter's Garage

Have the ERP on my car, very nice product, flawless product (love the little curve at the smaller end to joint, very good engineering)

JohnJL · 06-10-2015, 03:59 AM

Thanks guys. I have raised and gusseted the trailing arm pivot which is a reason i want the springplates. I wonder why they both have holes rather than slots to allow some adjustability and fine tuning?

Mahler9th · 06-10-2015, 07:36 AM

I bought a set of ERP spring plates through Tarett. I considered the Rebel Racing version, but never the Elephant Racing version.

I installed the spring plates about a month or so ago. I have already done a preliminary set up on the car (its a race car) and was very happy to be able to adjust camber and toe separately.

As far as I know, ERP was the first to commercialize this type of product, and has the most experience with them in various applications, including high-level wheel-to-wheel racing. I think aspects of the ERP design, materials and/or hardware have evolved over time, reflecting that experience.

Tarett Engineering makes and sells many excellent products and has strong ties to high levels of amateur and pro racing. ERP is run by Cary Eisenlohr who has vast experience in racing.

Be aware that depending on your specifics, raising the inner and outer pickup points may not be possible with the simple addition of inner pivot boxes (also available from Tarett) and spring plates that have a provision for this change (which the ERP parts have). In some, perhaps many or most cases, interference can occur between between the shock/spring arrangement, and the inner walls of the stock crossmember.

So depending on your situation, you may not be able to raise both attachment points by an inch.

JohnJL · 06-10-2015, 09:23 AM

Thanks Mike. WRT interference issues, its exactly the reason why I am doing a mock install now, so I can modify or switch things around now before paint.

I didnt use new pivotboxes, though i did consider it. I gusseted the existing pivot brackets and elongated the bolt holes upward.

KTL · 06-10-2015, 10:51 AM

Keep in mind that you may need to drill a hole in the ERP plate, depending on your sway bar's drop link attachment. Sway bars like the Tarett and the SmartRacing bars are attached to the rear trailing arm in the toe adjustment area of the trailing arm. When you install the 935-style spring plates, and the need for the factory eccentric toe adjuster within the trailing arm is done away with (because toe adjustment is now done via the threaded coupler at the shank of the spherical rod end), there's no hole in the spring plate to allow your drop link to be fastened.

Drilling a hole is not a big deal. Just pointing it out in case that's not immediately apparent to those reading this.

JohnJL · 06-10-2015, 12:35 PM

Thanks. Interesting there is that conflict since i will be using tarret rsr style sways.

moneymanager · 06-10-2015, 02:35 PM

Do I understand correctly that these 935-style spring plates require coil-overs? (Of course they do,what am I thinking?)

proffighter · proffighter's Garage

Quote:

Originally Posted by KTL

Keep in mind that you may need to drill a hole in the ERP plate, depending on your sway bar's drop link attachment. Sway bars like the Tarett and the SmartRacing bars are attached to the rear trailing arm in the toe adjustment area of the trailing arm. When you install the 935-style spring plates, and the need for the factory eccentric toe adjuster within the trailing arm is done away with (because toe adjustment is now done via the threaded coupler at the shank of the spherical rod end), there's no hole in the spring plate to allow your drop link to be fastened.

Drilling a hole is not a big deal. Just pointing it out in case that's not immediately apparent to those reading this.

I have tarett sways too. Used the stock point instead of the excenter hollow thing. Just drilled a M12x1.5 (if I remind correct) and cut an M8 for the link. almost the same point, just to center of the car instead of the outside. Pic on demand

JohnJL · 06-11-2015, 03:55 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by proffighter

I have tarett sways too. Used the stock point instead of the excenter hollow thing. Just drilled a M12x1.5 (if I remind correct) and cut an M8 for the link. almost the same point, just to center of the car instead of the outside. Pic on demand

I politely demand.

Mahler9th · 06:57 AM

It may be a good idea during your trial fit process to check, if possible, your range of adjustability with respect to alignment and set up parameters such as camber, toe and ride height. And as part of this, take into account suspension travel.

On my car, I can easily raise the inner and outer pickup points (SC-style trailing arms) by the one inch enabled by the ERP spring plates, but my Bilstein RSR shock and 2.25 inch ID spring combination will not allow me to run the low ride height I desire, due to interference with the inner walls of the cross member.

I don't see a lack of holes in the ERP spring plates as a conflict with anyone's ARB. I see it as a design choice. I am sure that many shops and individuals have added holes in appropriate places based on their needs.

In my case, drilled holes in my ERP spring plates in a position similar to the toe eccentric hole in a stock plate. Not for an ARB drop link (I don't plan to run a rear ARB), but rather for a device to help preserve my camber settings. In an old thread in these forums, I posted a pic or two of how I have traditionally done this by deforming a large thick washer.

My new approach will be to use a "trailing arm mount" from JWE (used with the SRP/JWE ARB kit but also available separately), instead of a washer. These mounts have a design feature to rest against the camber eccentric to prevent it from turning and changing camber settings.

It may be important to choose a location for the holes carefully since you have a limited trailing arm "window" through which to work.

If I have time later today I will try to take a picture and post it.

KTL · 06-11-2015, 09:09 AM

Mike,

Your comment about adding holes in appropriate places as needed is understood and rather obvious, thanks. But I think you're missing the point I was trying to make? I intentionally avoided typing my post with words that would imply the lack of a hole for the sway bar is a deficiency or conflict as you call it. I simply pointed it out because often times people seem to expect "bolt-on" installation & thus they don't anticipate they'll have to modify other components as a result of installing something like the 935 spring plate.

Here's the thread regarding your washer trick. I recalled participating in that thread, now that you mentioned it Rear camber bolts

Here's a picture from SRP's instructions for their sway bar that shows part #20 which I believe you're referring to as a replacement for your trick washer. But when you use this SRP sway bar stud base piece, are you not going to be losing the dishing effect of your trick washer?

Mahler9th · 06-11-2015, 11:15 AM

KTL:

You and I are of course on the same page regarding expectations for bolt-on application of some of these types of parts.

I was referring to the OP's use of the term conflict, which seems to indicate a bit of surprise that Tarett would sell spring plates that don't have an accommodation for their ARB drop link. I was not referring to your comments at all, except attempting to add the caution about where to drill.

I do disagree about the obviousness regarding where to drill.

There are no instructions with the ERP spring plates whether purchased from Tarett or others.

In the past, SRP published a single page document which I have, but it does not go into detail on holes necessary for ARB drop links. And there is no information as to where to set the initial toe on the plates if one wants to start out at or near the factor spring plate dimensions.

Yes, that is the part to which I referred. To be used in place of the washer I used in my previous scheme to prevent the camber adjuster from rotating. Depending on where you drill holes for an ARB drop link, the JWE part may or may not work.

I have earlier-style SC trailing arms and they have a non-removable ball for the stock ARB drop links. I ended up making adjustable drop links that snap onto the balls using the factory bushing, so when I do use an ARB for tuning purposes, my drop links can either be attached to the spring plates or to the trailing arms. My tuning ARB is a later factory-style bar with a few extra holes for adjustability.

In any case, I think the OP has some good perspective now on all of this, and again, I am happy to snap and post a pic or two which shows how I installed my ERP spring plates, gratefully purchased from Tarett.

proffighter · proffighter's Garage

Here is a pic I found on my HDD. If still not good enough, I can make better ones with the Tarett swaybar next sunday. Got no time earlier

JohnJL · 06-11-2015, 02:23 PM

Thanks guys, very thoughtful and helpful dialog. My choice of words on "conflict" were poor. You are right I was picking up on them not being compatible out of the box, but I understand now and have no problem with that. One question I would have, and maybe I should direct this to Tarret, is whether I need to preorder any additional droplinks or bits now. I already have the Tarrett bars (though our host) and was planning on ordering the springarms also through our host.

I am not shy about making modifications...photo evidence attached:

Roland, do you have a pic of the springarm installed and its connection to the ARB?

JohnJL · 06-11-2015, 05:20 PM

I emailed Tarrett, within minutes Ira replied quite helpfully....

the swingarms are Eisenlohn ERP.
Yes, you need to drill a hole for the ARB then use the stock Tarrett hardware.

I'll be going that route. Just decide now to purchase through Pelican (if they stock it and can send along with everything else to minimize my customs butt-hurt) or separately if it gets drop-shipped anyway. That doubling up of customs...across a ridiculous border...offends me to the core.

winders · 06-11-2015, 05:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JohnJL

I emailed Tarrett, within minutes Ira replied quite helpfully....

the swingarms are Eisenlohn ERP.
Yes, you need to drill a hole for the ARB then use the stock Tarrett hardware.

I'll be going that route. Just decide now to purchase through Pelican (if they stock it and can send along with everything else to minimize my customs butt-hurt) or separately if it gets drop-shipped anyway. That doubling up of customs...across a ridiculous border...offends me to the core.

If you are going to email Tarett and ask them questions, at least follow through and buy the product from them. Ira at Tarett is going to be able to support you better with this kind of product anyway.

JohnJL · 05:41 PM

Hi Scott
Well yes, I will be supporting him either way right? Its just a question of whether I buy his product (and some other stuff too) directly and do 2 orders or with a bunch of other stuff too from Pelican. I have 3 sets of front and rear Tarret bars on other cars so I think I am a fair supporter.

My point in posting that was also to illustrate what I thought was excellent responsiveness on his part.

I am also an Elephant customer as well with 3 sets of shocks and bushings from Chuck too who has also been ver helpful and responsive, whether I buy through Pelican or directly.