Need to know what 911 is best to get around 20k

pete98m3 · 11-10-2002, 10:13 PM

I have about 20k to spend, + / - a few thousand... I really don't care if its high mileage as long as the body is in good shape and its been properly maintained... even 200k miles would be fine assuming everything is in proper shape...

My dad just aquired a '92 carrera cup car, so i'm sort of leaning towards a 964, a lot of the parts and techniques used in the carrera cup car are detailed on how to perform the modifications in the history / paperwork book that came with it... I also think i'd like to have the extra grunt of hte 3.6 and definintly twin plug...

On that note i'm thinking of turbocharging whatever i get, and the twin plug would certainly handle boost more easily... I guess i'd like to know whats involved in making a 3.2 Twin plug... anyways i guess i'd like to know everybodies opionions on the difference between a 84-89 and a 964...

thanks in advance

eion · 10:31 PM

Well, I'd get the newest car you can afford. The caveat to this is that a better-maintained older car will be better than a new car that hasn't been maintained. You should be able to get a very decent early ('90 or '91) 964 within your budget. Depending on where you are (you don't say), you may be able to find newer cars, but I would shy away from these, as at this price they're not going to have been as well looked-after. I'm sure you've heard all the horror stories about the early 964s, but as long as all the maintenance has been done and the PPI checks out, they're perfectly good cars.

edit:
just saw your comment on the turbocharger. Any decent aftermarket turbo is going to be spendy ($10k minimum from what I've seen), and may effect how smoggable etc. the car is. You might want to go with a factory turbo instead - this'll have upgraded everything (brakes, drivetrain, etc.) to go with the extra power.

makaio · 11-10-2002, 10:25 PM

If you have 20grand to spend, I would get a realy nice SC or a nice 3.2 Carrera.

Make sure to save a little bit of your money, for any unforseen repairs.

A little piece advice too, check what insurance premiums are before you buy. So you don't get a shock like I did when I went to insure my CAB.

pete98m3 · 11-10-2002, 10:27 PM

insurance doesn't matter its a 3rd car, and i know i definantly want a carrera not an SC, the 3.2 used the turbo crank... I'm in utah, but i can get whatever car i want through my dads broker...

speeder · speeder's Garage

Pete, As far as I know, the crank is the same strength on 3.0 as 3.2, both use the 930 bottom end. You are going to get a boatload of opinions here with your question, so I'll throw in my .02 worth: I own an SC and think that it's a great car, but make no mistake about it, I bought it because it was what I could afford in an extra car at the time. I am currently dumping $$ into it to correct the design defects of the motor, (broken studs and valve springs, leaks), plus some upgrades. When I am through, I would have been able to buy a nice carrera or maybe even a 964 at today's (falling) prices. But that's life.

As someone is sure to tell you here, the '84-'89 911s are a simpler car and easier to work on than the 964, but if you can get a GOOD '92 or newer for similar $$, go for it. Coil springs and a 3.6 are an improvement, period. Those cars have massive potential if you are a hotrodder, (lightening it up, track upgrades), and are a far better street car, IMO. Before anyone jumps up and down, I love them all and love my car, but I am familiar with and have driven them all, so I stand by this statement. A lot of the "earlier is better" people around here have never even been in a newer car. Maybe Tyson Schmidt, pro Porsche mechanic and track driver who owns a '72 and '92 911 will chime in here, when he gets home from Laguna Seca.

ZAMIRZ · ZAMIRZ's Garage

A nice 3.2 Carrera driver would be your best bet for $20,000. You can go for a concourse 911SC, but as soon as you start enjoying it (read: driving) the value will drop significantly.

later,

amir (Try to find an '87 up if ya can as it came with the improved G50 transmission........but don't buy a rought g50 car over a pristine '84-'86)

pete98m3 · 11-11-2002, 12:39 AM

well my dad actually vintage races the early cars as well, he's got a '67 2.0L, had a bunch of others but we're thinning things out... He's had just about all the 911's over time but i've just gotta sort out whats best for my needs...

btw the SC crank is the same as the 2.4, and the 3.2 crank is shared with the 3.3 turbo... (pg 66 Porsche Performance Handbook; Anderson)

i'm pretty sure i'm leaning towards a 964, unless i can get twin plug sorted on a 3.2 for reasonable cost.

patalive · 11-11-2002, 04:15 AM

You are correct about the 3.6 having more "grunt". It does! I had an 83Sc for 10 years, running SSI headers and sport exhaust. Great car - fun, handled well and was no slouch on the highway.
-
I recently purchased a 93 C2 and there is no comparison. The C2 is so much quicker and faster, and better riding. For a track car, the earlier, lighter bodies are really good, particularly with engine mods or transplants. But for a street car, the 964 has it all over the earlier models. Coil over suspension and power steering, and in my case, the G50 transmission, make for a great street car. Also, in my case, the absence of "bump steer" is really nice. I must be getting old and soft!

Edit note: The 964 RS America models do not have power steering -

Chuck

Bill Verburg · Bill Verburg's Garage

The 2.4, 2.7 and Carrera 3.0 all used the same crankshaft.

The 3.0 SC and 3.3T used a crank w/ mains ~3mm larger than the 2.4/2.7/C3, the 3.0 SC rod journals were as previously, while the 3.3t got ~2mm larger crankpins.

When the 3.2 came out it recieved a longer stroke and the bigger con rod journals previously used only on the 3.3t, the 964 continued w/ a somewhat modified version of this crank which included another stroke increase and external damper.

There are other differences, but these are the high spots.

From the 3.0SC on the crankpins were narrower @22mm than the 23.8mm used on the 2.4/2.7/C3

FWIW There are numerous errors in Bruce's book p66 is not among them. He merely failed to mention the 3 liter SC crank at all.

NapTownSpeedy · 11-11-2002, 07:18 AM

Just my ideas, but...
What are you looking to do maintenace wise? I also own an SC for purchase price reasons (practically stole it for what I paid). But I have found that I really enjoy working on it. Doing the projects myself saves a ton of money. Short of machine work and laser alignments, I have found with research, 101 projects, this web board (thanks fellas), and modest tools you can really do a lot.
That said, if I had the cash I would have gotten a 3.6. I have friends with C2's and 993TT's and they are really neat. Yeah not the raw feel of the SC's and Carreras but FAST. I recently helped a friend of mine search all over for a Carrera Targa. We looked nationwide and found a really nice example. Then 2 months later I meet a really nice guy that is a car broker and driving instructor. My friend could have bought a nice 92 C2 for a grand less. Ouch, both scratching our heads now, because he hates wrenching.
Here is a nice link to a good C2 in your range 92 C2 Coupe . I'd look all over and drive as many examples as you can. Each has it's own quircks and maintenance issues.
Good luck, and have fun hunting.

widebody911 · widebody911's Garage

A neighbor of mine recently bought an '87 Carrera, super clean, Autothority MAF, super clean, 32k miles. Did I mention the car was super clean?

$20k.

targa88 · 11-11-2002, 07:43 AM

In the words of Bruce Anderson, you purchase the most recent model that you can afford. That being said you: it all depends what your ultimate goal is? Do you do your own mechanical work? Do you plan to track you car?
1988-89 Carreras were virtually perfect (all due respect to SCs and earlier model owners) - they had worked out all the kinks. Solid car, visceral feeling of the 3.2L engine - better tranny.
By the time the 964 (and subsequent models 993-996) rolled in, at least in my mind - they had lost some of the appeal of the original Porsche. There is no disputing that they are more comfort oriented (better HVAC, etc) -twin plug for your "turbo" project.
Not speaking from experience but ratehr from talking to other owners, the more recent models are a real piece of work when it comes to servicing.
Up to the late Carrera models it is really at DIY project. Made easier with the support of our hosts and this board.
No matter what you end up buying - a Porsche is still a Porsche and there is nothing else like it....

nostatic · nostatic's Garage

depends on what your budget really is. If all you've really got to spend is $20K, then I'd be looking for a $15-17K car, and use the extra money for taxes (if any) and to fix the first things that crop up. High teens can get you a very pristine SC (if you're lucky and look hard) or a very nice 915 Carrera. G50 cars can be had but they will likely be a bit higher mileage.

You can get 964s for 15-17 range, but I think they would likely be pretty serious money sinks. Do a search on some recent threads, but the lore is that the 3.6 engines don't last as long as the 3.0/3.2 motors. Buying a "deal" 964 for $17K and then having to rebuild the motor would be a bummer.

That being said, every year has its issues. 3.0 is chain tensioners, popoff valve, and head studs. 3.2 is rod bolts and valve guides. My advice is to buy the best example you can find regardless of year...unless you really prefer a particular model (e.g. 964).

pete98m3 · 11-11-2002, 04:50 PM

yeah, well i do alllll my own mechanics, i guess if i was going NA i'd try to find a 964... I'm starting school again next semester as a mechanical engineering major so I'm debating if i'm really going to have time to build my turbo setup, in which case a 930 is also appealing because I could simply add on to the existing turbo setup...

We sold my '98 m3 and have about 30k to spend, but we're trying to step it down a notch so hence the loose "20k" range... I dunno, lol... I'll probably get a 964, but i sure like the wider fenders on the 930... (but i don't really like the oem turbo setup)... lol i'm stumped, i've been looking for about 2 months now and i still can't decide.

MRM · 11-11-2002, 05:10 PM

You'll get what you pay for, but you'll certainly pay for what you get. $20,000 is not the right ballpark for either a twin plug 964 or a 930 unless you either get an older (pre-86) turbo, a grey market 930, or one in bad enough shape to make it not worth the money. That is the right ballpark for a very nice 87-89 Carrera, a very nice early 964, or a perfect SC with money left over. It would also get a beat up high-end 964 with mods or a beat up 930. At 30 grand you're in the range of a twin plug 964 or nice post-86 turbo.

So for $20,000 those are pretty much your choices: SC with money left over, late model Carrera comfortably, nice 964 if you look and take your time, or 930 are modified 964 in rough shape.

Personally I'd vote for the best price you could find on a nice Carrera (I'm biased) and putting the rest of your money into your own mods. Or, doing the same with a 964. There are some great buys on 964s, as everyone has told you already.

pete98m3 · 11-11-2002, 05:19 PM

hmmm, i think i'm going to keep trying to find a 964 3.6... I can deal without the huge 930 fenders.

what year did they get twin plug, i know they changed a lot of stuff in late '91...

anyways thanks for your help guys, sortof half way decided now... maybe. lol

86Carrera · 11-11-2002, 05:46 PM

I would do some searching in the archives about the 964. The old adage of buying the newest P-car you can afford got a giant "except the 964" footnote for me after I read a couple of posts from knowledgeable experts from this board.

The advice you've received is good -- pristine SC, excellent 915 Carrera or decent 950 Carrera -- for $20K.

Pete
86 Coupe