Show me your pedal height (for proper heel/toe)

[tirwin]

I either need to adjust my brake pedal or my technique.

I have an extension on my gas pedal that raises it's height about an inch. My problem seems to be that my brake pedal is still too high even with the extension.

I'm wondering if someone can show me a side profile pic of a well-setup pedal cluster so I can see what I need to do to adjust my pedals.

Instead of twisting the ball of my foot on the brake pedal and blipping the gas with my heel, I prefer to roll my ankle and blip the gas with the side of my foot. Maybe it's my big feet, but the heel method doesn't seem to work too well for me. Right now it feels like I've got too far to go to reach the gas pedal.

[911pcars]

Everyone has a preferred heel-toe geometry. The pedal height at brake engagement should be at or near the height of the gas pedal at rest.

The factors that affect pedal engagement height include:
- master cylinder bore size
- brake caliper volume requirements
- brake pad wear
- brake pedal arm geometry

You'll notice that 3 out of the 4 are fixed. Pad wear is a variable no matter how you start off.

Pedal stroke on early 911s also controls a mechanical brake switch that has limited adjustment range. Thus, changing the length of the pedal-to-MC-control rod will affect the brake light ON threshold. Later 911s use a pressure switch on the MC. Lowering the pedal contact by shortening the push rod to match the gas pedal could result in reduced range to apply full brake force in an emergency. Careful.

Changing the gas pedal height with a spacer on top is a simple method. A more involved solution is to shorten the pedal arm by cutting and rewelding accordingly. Needless to say, measure twice cut once, then weld.

Sherwood

[ganun]

The shape might be of interest. From aircraft 5 ply 3/32 plywood.
Watch out for lowering the pedal too much, like Sherwood said.

[RSTarga]

when depressed, the brake pedal should be about even with the accelerator pedal.That allows you to roll your heel over to the accelerator pedal to blip the throttle.

[tirwin]

Thanks for the explanation, Sherwood.

With my brake pedal depressed it still feels like the accelerator is too low even with the extension on the gas pedal. I'm just wondering how my pedals are set up compared to others. The brake sits farther forward than the clutch. The brake is tight and I like the way it feels so I'm hesitant to mess with it too much.

[tirwin]

Ganun, in your picture, if you looked at the brake and clutch from the side view (cross section), would you say that one is father forward than the other? It looks as if your clutch might be, but it's hard to say from the pic. Mine seems to be the opposite.

I also have a side extension on the gas pedal so it's very similar to your setup. Thanks for posting the pic.

[spyerx]

New guy question. Can brake pedal be adjusted in the cluster? Mine is too hight for h/t. Guess I need to pull the floor board and look

On my rs when into the brake the brake pedal is even with the gas and with a rennline pedal extender super easy to h/t. That said it's hard to do on street as I have to be very agressive on the brakes. On track it is perfect.

[gliding_serpent]

The rennline aluminum pedal set us fully adjustable forward. In fact, I found that it was too far forward compared to be depressed brake (with brake pads nearing their final period of life). When I get my car back on the road,I will be keen to adjust it.

[911pcars]

I would also check to make sure your gas pedal and throttle linkage allows the throttle to open 100% (power bonus). This will affect the pedal height at rest.

I prefer the brake to be slightly higher than the gas. I roll the ball of my foot from brake to gas. Try attaching a wood block for a trial fit. Easy to adjust thickness, or lengthen the throttle rod so it raises the rest height of the pedal.

Sherwood

[winders]

Originally Posted by 911pcars

Everyone has a preferred heel-toe geometry. The pedal height at brake engagement should be at or near the height of the gas pedal at rest.

The factors that affect pedal engagement height include:
- master cylinder bore size
- brake caliper volume requirements
- brake pad wear
- brake pedal arm geometry

You'll notice that 3 out of the 4 are fixed. Pad wear is a variable no matter how you start off.

Pedal stroke on early 911s also controls a mechanical brake switch that has limited adjustment range. Thus, changing the length of the pedal-to-MC-control rod will affect the brake light ON threshold. Later 911s use a pressure switch on the MC. Lowering the pedal contact by shortening the push rod to match the gas pedal could result in reduced range to apply full brake force in an emergency. Careful.

Changing the gas pedal height with a spacer on top is a simple method. A more involved solution is to shorten the pedal arm by cutting and rewelding accordingly. Needless to say, measure twice cut once, then weld.

In a properly functioning brake system, pad wear does not affect pedal height.

[911pcars]

Originally Posted by winders

In a properly functioning brake system, pad wear does not affect pedal height.

Yes. I stand corrected. Additional fluid volume in the circuit compensates for pad wear.

[will hung]

To help with heal/toe shifting, I originally moved my brake pedal closer to the throttle. The first time, I flew too close to the sun; therefore I moved it too close to the floor and had issues completely applying the brakes. When I pushed the pedal to the floor, it wasn't traveling enough to clamp the pads to the rotors.

I then backed the brake pedal off a little and it was great. Then I started to worry about what would happen when everything gets good and hot. So I pulled the brake pedal off the floor and bought a height adjustable throttle pedal from D-Zug. With the height adjustable throttle pedal, I just adjusted it further from the floor until it was where I preferred.

If I remember tonight, I'll snap a picture

[cashman]

Remove the rubber pad on the brake pedal (gets you an 1/8" or so) and buy an extra gas pedal, cut the back tab off and mount it on top of your existing pedal (gets you another 1/2" or so) and looks OEM. I can't roll the foot but can heel toe no problem.

[ganun]

Originally Posted by tirwin

Ganun, in your picture, if you looked at the brake and clutch from the side view (cross section), would you say that one is father forward than the other? It looks as if your clutch might be, but it's hard to say from the pic. Mine seems to be the opposite.

I also have a side extension on the gas pedal so it's very similar to your setup. Thanks for posting the pic.

Yes, I lowered the brake pedal position with the linkage, I might have gone too far needlessly as a matter of fact cause I have experienced (maybe) what Sherwood mentions i.e. running out of stroke but I think it due to a bit of a spongy pedal, which a good bleeding will take care of that. Now its below the clutch and even slightly below (+/-) with the accel. I think I'll bring it up so that it is between the clutch and gas pedal.
I like the idea of a stand off bushing to offset a custom pedal from the OE.

[CCM911]

This is where a size 10 1/2 wide foot comes in handy.

Are you rolling your ankle enough?

[T77911S]

i cant do it with my 930 either. my 914 was perfect and very easy to do.

with that said, my 77 brake pedal stuck out past the clutch pedal at rest. the brake pedal rod had an adjustment on it that let me adjust the brake pedal bake even with the clutch pedal.
i have not messed with my 930 pedal but i would look to see if the brake pedal rod itself has an adjustment that will let you adjust it close to the floor .

long way about getting to that one,

[911SauCy]

I just recently felt out heel-toe in my 911. As mentioned, when the brake is pressed its even enough with the gas to (how I prefer) roll the side of my size 12 to blip the throttle.

What hasn't been mentioned here is that unless your making what seems like an emergency stop or running 7/10ths+ on the street, you won't be able to achieve this. Aggressive braking is required.

[gliding_serpent]

I heal toe most of my street shifts, but i agree, it is much easier under heavy braking on the track. Doing it on the street is just for practice.

On that note, less brake pressure on the street often requires a higher gas pedal position than would be ideal on the track with heel-toe under heavy braking. Thus, there is no perfect solution. Adjust to your most common use situation.

My goal is having the gas a bit lower than the brake for street use. Thus, during hard braking they will be even. If you are a beginner, go lower still with the gas to minimize accidental reving when pressing the brakes. I did that 2 times in my first week of ownership, and once or twice in my first ever lapping session.

[tirwin]

Originally Posted by CCM911

This is where a size 10 1/2 wide foot comes in handy.

Are you rolling your ankle enough?

I roll my ankle until it pops the first time. After that I can roll it further.

Sometimes I can do it ok, other times it feels like I'm groping for the pedal.

My brake pedal is pretty tight but it's been that way since I've owned the car. It doesn't seem to have a lot of travel compared to most other cars but I love the way the braking feels.

I think this is going to be one of those situations where I need to compare my setup to some others in person, but again, I think my brake pedal currently sits higher as a starting point than others from the pictures posted here. I'll try to take a picture soon for comparison.

[tirwin]

Originally Posted by 911SauCy

I just recently felt out heel-toe in my 911. As mentioned, when the brake is pressed its even enough with the gas to (how I prefer) roll the side of my size 12 to blip the throttle.

What hasn't been mentioned here is that unless your making what seems like an emergency stop or running 7/10ths+ on the street, you won't be able to achieve this. Aggressive braking is required.

Yea but when you do it right it is freaking awesome when you can downshift and not upset the balance of the car going into a turn.