Help with H4 requested..

[Hoss911sc]

The other day I attended a great C&C and had a great drive. After parking in the garage at home I was horrified to see my right side H4 was completely gone!! No collateral damage to be found. I did have the light assembly out several weeks ago while replacing horns and adding fan to the oil cooler. I was very careful to thread the large screw correctly and tightly and the top lip was hooked well as far as I could tell. It's been driven for several weeks since then. I polished the car before I left and there was no noticeable movement or looseness felt on the headlight. I did not drive over any major or unusual bumps. Neither me or my passenger heard or saw the headlight fall off.

Due to the lack of seeing anything and no collateral damage , my first thought was that someone stole it at the C&C as we approached the car from the rear when leaving so can't verify it was still attached when we left. Seems hard to believe it could have worked completely loose while driving and fallen off without me seeing or hearing something.

So I would appreciate some ideas since I need to replace probably both lights so they match completely (left one is quite old and worn and has black inner ring where new ones seem to be chrome).

Let's look at the falling off scenario that I believe some others have experienced. Is there a good way to prevent this happening again? Has anyone used a little Loctite on the larger screw that holds the whole assembly in? Anyone designed a "safety tether". Any other suggestions?

[darrin]

dave:

There should be a few threads regarding a safety teather for the h4s -- here's one I found that's pretty informative H4's keep popping off. What can I do?

-- Before you replace the H4 you still have, I wondered whether the chrome/black rings are even visible under the painted ring -- if not, keep in mind that you can separately buy an new lens for your remaining h4 and (if the black vs chrome inner ring isn't visible), save some significant $$$ in the process.

[Hoss911sc]

Thanks Darrin. I hadn't found that thread. Interestingly I also installed a new factory seal which other folks have had issues with. It was tight although I was pretty sure it was hooked on top. I had nothing remaining including the screws so I'm still not convinced it wasn't taken - only takes a minute ..

[tirwin]

I recently installed new headlight bucket seals too. It was a pain in the rear to get the headlights to seat properly with the new seal. Several times I thought I had it only to find that I didn't.

My guess is that it came off -- I would hate to think someone made off with it, but stranger things have happened I guess.

[merlinfe]

Nothing a few zip ties or safety-wire cant fix when you get the new guys installed.

-Steve

[Cairo94507]

I am just not as quick to believe it just fell off. I believe that some people are dishonest and that is just the way they are. We have all come across those that rip off members in transactions. I suspect someone stole it and hope this posting get some attention so people will keep their eyes open and maybe someone saw something that can help ID the person.

[RSTarga]

When I reinstall, I safety wire to the headlight and push and pull with my hands on the headlight to make sure it has hooked at the top. Very easy to f.... up.
Who would steal one headlight?
I had a rear on my 964 fall off after changing a bulb, it fell on the exhaust and burned a brand new lens.

[964TargaC2]

I put Orings on the tail light screws, it keeps pressure on the screw and cushions the lens..might even seal that area a bit!!

[RSBob]

To keep mine attached to the car I use a couple of heavy duty zip ties secured to the wire cage on the light and the other end around the wire harness connector. May also help against theft unless they are packing wire cutters or a knife.

[mike27t]

Zip ties here as well

[GeorgeK]

Are the threads on the bottom tab damaged? I can't fathom that screw loosening to the point of falling out, unless the threads are shot.

[tobluforu]

Me 3 on zip ties, of course this will not fly with the Porsche snobs.

[Hoss911sc]

Originally Posted by Guest3416

Are the threads on the bottom tab damaged? I can't fathom that screw loosening to the point of falling out, unless the threads are shot.

Doesn't appear damaged but I'll confirm when I have a new screw to check the threads. I'm struggling to understand how it could come off so completely with no damage and me not seeing/hearing something. I also don't feel like someone could steal it at a C&C .. so it's somewhat a mystery at this point ..

Thanks for the thoughts on safety wire/ zip ties as a precaution to prevent future disaster.

I've searched a bit and it seems that the best option would be to merge an H4 lens/reflector with the much more robust mounting assembly for the H5 but that's not really doable (at least by me).

[Hoss911sc]

UPDATE, I just closely inspected the mounting for the screw and the threads look to be somewhat messed up although not completely stripped. The threads are not sharp anymore. So, I believe this confirms that the assembly came off, pulling the screws and all Still hard to believe I didn't see or hear it coming off..

This jogged my memory of bad things done by a PO that I had to deal with. The wiring in the headlight bucket had been messed with as I found while putting in new turn signal assemblies. This headlight had been attached with only 1, incorrect screw that had buggered up the threads. My wrench re-tapped and was able to fix the damage 8 years ago and it's been fine since with the proper factory screws. I'm not sure it can be trusted again even if re-tapped after this incident and I certainly can't loose another light a$$embly.

I sure wish there was a way to use the H4 reflector & lens with the much more robust H5 mounting assembly.. any engineers/fabricators out there?

[darrin]

you could always go back to sugar scoops with 7" round h4 bulb inserts --

[jdbunda]

The H4s don't present any good ways of attaching H5-style mounting tabs, do they?

One of the screws was stripped on mine, I buzzed off the old nut with a cutting wheel leaving just the flat tab with a hole in it. Then I slipped a folding speed nut over the tab - this fix has held solid for years. Another perhaps better solution would be to weld the hole shut and re-tap or weld on a new nut, but both of these are beyond my meager home garage capabilities.

[javadog]

Originally Posted by Hoss911sc

I sure wish there was a way to use the H4 reflector & lens with the much more robust H5 mounting assembly.. any engineers/fabricators out there?

You can always put the stock US sealed beam bracket/sugar scoop trim on the car and use an H4 7" round light. Essentially the same light output as the ROW H4 assembly. Won't ever fall out.

I have never believed that a ROW H4 light assebmly can fall out without it being noticed by the people in the car. It's plugged into the harness; at the very least it would bang around just a little bit before the plug came loose. The plugs on my lights take some effort to remove.

JR

[Hoss911sc]

Originally Posted by javadog

You can always put the stock US sealed beam bracket/sugar scoop trim on the car and use an H4 7" round light. Essentially the same light output as the ROW H4 assembly. Won't ever fall out.

I have never believed that a ROW H4 light assebmly can fall out without it being noticed by the people in the car. It's plugged into the harness; at the very least it would bang around just a little bit before the plug came loose. The plugs on my lights take some effort to remove.

JR

JR - That's what I thought too. No damage to wiring or surrounding area thankfully. Still baffled, but moving on with replacement H4's. Took a look at some H5s locally but don't like the lens do love the solid mounting The H4s already seem like candles compared to the xenons in my Audi. Probably not fair but that's what I'm now used to having during our long, dark winters in western NY.

I'll look at some kind of fail-safe tether as suggested by others above. Thanks to everyone for their thoughts and experiences! Appreciate the help

[moneymanager]

I can confirm that these do fall off without injuring the car or making any obvious noise. A friend was following me about 1/4 mile back when my right front H4 came off... spun off into the distance and smashed against a rock. No sound, no marks. Like you, I thought I had attached it. I hadn't.

[Hoss911sc]

Thanks for all the responses. It's most likely that I didn't have it installed properly. So I've looked at many photos of H4s installed and noticed that I can't see the seal exposed on most of them. As you can see on my car the left headlight reveals the seal at the bottom. They were like this when I acquired the car. I need to install the new light correctly this time!

Can someone please confirm the proper installation technique and subsequent look if done correctly? The new factory seals I got seem thicker but maybe the old ones are just perished. What's the correct orientation of the seal profiles? Photos welcome for this part Thanks in advance and appreciate the assistance.