Deciding on which Exhaust B&B or SSI

[KCPSG]

Like the post says , I cannot decide on what to get. I have been reading about my exhaust choices for some time and still I am not sure. I like the SSI header/heat exchangers (but I am unsure if they are the same as OEM exchangers only in Stainless) Do they offer less back preassure? and more hp?
I also like the B&B headers w/heat, it will also cut a few lbs off the car, but I have read that they're mufflers are junk, if this is true what other muffler can I go w/? I had read on here that their headers have a wider c/l to c/l for most mufflers to make up to. Is this true?

I am looking for the best HP gains but I don't want it so loud that my neighbors will hate me either.

[mb911]

SSIs provide better hPs than the early exchangers because they are equal length. I would not even consider b&B they tend to crack and are not very high quality but that is only hearsay as I have never owned a pair

[hkspwrsche]

Ive got a B&B muffler and it has cracks where the pipes are welded to the muffler.. it's pretty common though. I know everyone said the OEM muffler was heavy but the B&B seems to weigh just as much. I like the sound though and the muffler will be good as new once welded back up

[KCPSG]

thanks guys, is it true then that the B&B has a wider mounting from the heat exchanger/header to the muffler than the rest? If so this would be another strike agains them in my book. Since that would limit replacement mufflers.

[Lindy]

Just my $.02, however I had a very poor customer service issue with B&B, in that they refused to sell me a metal oil line (which runs in close proximity to the header) for their exhaust, without purchasing the entire system (again!). I tried to be as diplomatic as possible, however their customer service manager was downright rude.

SSI, on the other hand went way out of their way to be helpful, answered all of my questions, and I was able to get their system via next-day air.

Again, just one person's experience, and perhaps I caught the two people that I spoke with at B&B on a bad day, however I would never buy another system from them.

[rbcsaver]

I bought a B&B header w/heaters and a dual outlet muffler system for my 84 Carrera about 8 years ago. I did not like the muffler resonnance. The promptly replaced the muffler and sent new cat tips too. It was improved, but at 2300-2800 RPM the incar resonnace is awful. At other RPMs it sounds mean (cool)!! The two muffler clamps snapped about 7 years ago and they promptly over nighted replacements. I have not tried, nor needed any support since. I am not aware of any cracks in my muffler. However, as I recall it came with a near lifetime warranty, back then. I don't know what their warranty is today.
regards,
Steve

[fireant911]

I hated the loudness of the B&B system which my neighbors also made a point to share that they too did not like. The resonance from the system was extremely annoying and this made this setup unacceptable to me - it would cause me to cringe!!! I eventually found a method to defeat the resonance (with heat resistent wrap around the muffler straps) but the loudness was still intolerable. I purchased the original equipment from another member on this board (Harlan Chin) and I have absolutely no regrets. The B&B heat exchangers appear to be great but the muffler is simply awlful. I did notice some decrease in performance when I made the switch but I have no plans on reinstalling the B&B system. I would rather be stealthy than loud and obnoxious. I am still really good friends with my neighbors.

[rfuerst911sc]

It may have happened at some time but I have never heard of anyone complain about the quality of the SSI's,I have owned two different sets and thay are fantastic,they fit,they are equal length headers with heat,and they are just a piece of stainless artwork!!!You're muffler choices with the SSI's is much better than the B+B's,for instance I am about to receive MB911's 2 in 2 out muffler and it will fit my setup,I am removing a Leistritz factory muffler that was modified for a sportier sound.My vote is SSI,hands down.

[audi2.7t]

Go SSI ,I have a B&B that came with my car and it's a piece of junk build wise...
Sam.

[JonT]

Post your budget and I'm sure some guys will chime in on their setup for the optimal hp gain and sound. The Steve Wong chip with new free flow exhaust does wonders for those 84-88 3.2's.

[Bill Verburg]

The B&B headers are fine but too large for your car. The SSI are also fine but too small for your car. Of the 2 it's better to be a little small.

It is true that the spacing between the B&B collectors is wider than the spacing for the SSIs, the SSIs can use ant standard 91 muffler the B&B header needs a custom setup or a B&B muffler the latter I agree is a very poor choice for a number of reasons.

Here is an example of a custom setup w/ B&B headers


Should you choose SSI you will need to fab some heat ducts like this

[efhughes3]

Originally posted by mb911
I would not even consider b&B they tend to crack and are not very high quality but that is only hearsay as I have never owned a pair

Let's not confuse B&B header quality with B&B muffler quality. Their headers are fine. Try Fabspeed.com, they have a muffler kit for B&B headers. I've got this combined setup on my car. Very pleased.

[Carrera3.5L]

Originally posted by Bill Verburg
The B&B headers are fine but too large for your car. The SSI are also fine but too small for your car. Of the 2 it's better to be a little small.

As Bill mentioned, the B&B's are 1 3/4" which are too large for a 3.2L (and even for a street 3.4L or 3.5L) and the SSI's are 1 1/2" which are borderline for a 3.2L. The smaller diameter will help the bottom and mid-range torque at the expense of top end performance and the larger diameter would provide the opposite effect. Since it is assumed that this is for a street car, you will most likely be in the 3K-5K range and not at 7K on a consistent basis.

Unless you absolutely need or want to have heat, headers are another option. Here are some 1 5/8" headers from George Narbel with a Dansk 2-in 2-out stainless muffler on my soon to be completed 3.2L to 3.5L conversion. No extra oil lines or rerouting necessary. Simple bolt-on and cost half as much as SSI's.



I have fitted SSI's and they are beautiful and well made. Have no experience with B&B other than what I read on this board.

One last option that you may consider and what many have done (including me) is replace the cat with a pre-muffler from Dansk, Fabspeed or a euro spec car and get a nice final muffler from Dansk, Monty, etc, etc. This provides more bang for the buck then SSI's and easily allows you to put the stock cat back on for emissions testing if required. Here is a pic with a Dansk 1-in 2-out muffler:



You actually have quite a few viable options...

Ralph

[Joeaksa]

Ralph,

Those headers are beautiful!

I have B&B on the car now and like them. Muffler is a newer version and does not resonate at all. Sound is not loud and I believe that my old system (SSI w/Dansk stainless muffler) was actually a bit louder.

JoeA

[Bill Verburg]

I second Ralphs suggestion of the precat. W/ smog cams headers are moot, adequate flow is everything.

Joe, you broke down and bought the B&Bs, good. Did you get the 964 heat tubes as well?

[Joeaksa]

Bill,

Found a used set of B&B's on Ebay that were for a 964. Problem is that they get in the way of the oil suction hose from the tank to the engine so I have to get a bit "creative" to make it work or buy the above mentioned hose from B&B.

They are no louder than my old SSI's and absolutely no resonance at all. Heard a lot of bad stuff about the muffler after I bought it but its just fine.

Am probably going to cut a second exhaust hole in the bottom left of the muffler so that I have dual pipes coming out the back.

Joe

[KCPSG]

thanks for all the reply's everyone,

Ralph those custom headers are very nice, I am still undecided on what to get. Part of me still wants to keep heat in the car (however that is really only an issue down here for a couple of months) emissions are not a problem here in Louisiana since there is no testing for it right now.

you are right in assuming that this car will not be seeing the higher rpm range too often, I don't plan on tracking this car.
Don't get me wrong I do take it to red line quit a bit but not keeping it there like in racing.

So right now I am leaning towards the SSI and finding a muffler.

A friend of mine has just bought a 2 in 2 out from MB911 and I cannot wait to hear what it sounds like. I may be calling on you here shortly for an order for me.

[pjv911]

I ran ssi exchangers with a ghl muffler and the sound was incredible . No resonance no fitment problems . The ghl muffler is soooo much nicer than the B&B muffler . That setup is second to none. I should also note that no heat exhanger works as well as the stainless ssi .


Kurt Williams

[pjv911]

heres a look at that ghl muffler .

Kurt Williams

[ccus944]

I know this is an old thread, but for those who come across it while researching the subject, as I did... I thought I would add a little more info to this thread from all of the research I've gathered on this....re: the above...I have always heard good things about B&B headers over the years...if you review the dyno results on Steve Wong's website, the stock cars with B&B headers seem to consistently produce the most HP...if that is part of your goal...and lastly, it is true that the B&B headers for the 3.2 motor has 1 3/4" tubes, which from my research and mentioned in this thread, is too big and effects low end torque on a street car, however, their same header for the 3.0 motor is made with 1 5/8 tubes, which is ideal...not the above posts stating 1 3/4(on B&B) too large, and 1 1/2(no the SSIs) too small...the B&B 3.0 header is just right and bolts right up. I needed a couple of new muffler clamps and bracket and B&B sent it right out for a reasonable cost, so I had no issues with their customer service...There are several other threads that discuss the ideal sizes, etc preferences, etc...another topic that was touched on in this thread is droning at low rpms...other threads do address this and commonly on a 2-out exhaust will drone at low rpms...which does not matter on a track car, but does on a street car where you spend a bit of time in that rpm range...The solution that everyone including M&K and B&B have some up with, is capping off the second pipe for street usage, and removing the cap for track use...For street use, it is found that not only is a 1-out muffler(in a header system) not prone to droning at low RPMs, it is more efficient on a 3.2 naturally aspirated motor for street use. All of this is valuable info and is found among many threads on this site, along with dyno data of many many different setups on 911chips.com. As far as personal preference, I know they aren't really seen, but on 60s-80s 911 cars, I think polished stainless is a bit too much and so I prefer natural/unpolished stainless...it does depend on your motor though...if you've rebuilt it with custom painted components and such, or have a highly modified motor with aftermarket components on it, then polished stainless fits right in...but a 30 year old stock 911 motor with shiny stainless is a bit much for me...just my opinion on the aesthetics of them. Good luck and happy motoring.