Pre-Newbie question on if/what to buy

[Slanski62]

Hi folks. I'm pretty new to the Porsche world. After decades of dreaming, I bought a 912 back in April. I drove it a couple of months and then sent it off to my local Porsche expert to fix and improve a bunch of minor issues. He still has it, grrrrr. But while it's been there, I've had lots of time to read and look at various cars on line. I'm now considering upgrading to a 911 as my one and only driver. I've decided I'm really in love with the cars of the '85-'88 vintage. To my eyes, they're the peak of Porsche style and what a Porsche should look like.

My current car is a 2012 BMW M3. It's a great car and I have no complaints with it. It starts up all the time, it's under warranty, it has good heat and A/C and it's pretty fast. It's just that the car of my adolescent dreams is now within reach. My problem is, I've never even driven a 911, much less experienced ownership. So my questions are: Am I crazy? How would the performance of a late-80's 911 compare to a modern M3? If I go with a 911, will I continually have something to repair, even if it's minor?

Any observations or recommendations are welcome and appreciated.

Steve Yeatts
Chapel Hill, NC

[r-mm]

Hey Steve

A 911 is my only "car". The others are up on blocks =)
My wife has a modern japanese vehicle and my dad has a truck, so I'm covered in a pinch. Besides the expense of making the A/C "work" on a 911 3.2, I think they are entirely practical vehicles to drive daily. The millage you regularly see on them is a testament to this.

If you are like most people here, pride and desire will have you doing all sorts of more or less preventative repairs/upgrades, but I would not at all worry about non-stop repairs.

One thing I noticed (granted I bought a bit before prices took off) is that unlike every other car I've owned, I have no gripes throwing a few hundo or thousand a year at sensible reliability maintenance or repairs because these cars hold value so well. On top of liking learning how to do more and more to the car, I really do think I'm banking the money I put into it. You can't say that for too many cars.

They weigh in the 2800lb range and have in the 220-240hp range after some common upgrades so do the math on if they're fast enough to keep you excited. Sure is for me. Soundtrack and view from the cabin helps =)

I say do it. Buy an honest one in a color combo you like and keep it forever.

ps I bought my 911 before having any Porsche experience besides test driving a few. I did get it (and a few others) inspected prior to purchase.

[gshiwota]

I did this a while back when I gave up leasing new BMWs and decided it was time to buy, fix and daily drive a '82 911. It was great fun however be sure to know the reality of daily driving a 25+ year old car is like.

1) It will break and strand you at some point. I know this sounds doom and gloom and I'm sure that many people have had trouble free vintage daily driving, however you need to be prepared for it. It's an old car and the littlest things could strand you. This is not anything special to old Porsches, something is going to break on any old car. However combine with with relatively limited availbiltiy of good Porsche shops and any breakdown or issue will keep you off of the road for several days at a time. You're best off being able to work on the car yourself. This way you're not out of a car for days at a time when something minor breaks. I do all of my own work so if my car breaks, I can get it back on the road in a couple of days depending on parts availbility. If I wasn't able to do this, I'd be much poorer and my car would be "still in the shop - aaargh".

2) Your non-car-enthusiast friends won't understand. While it's exciting for us, to most it's just an old car. I remember my old boss at the time telling me that if I worked really hard for him, then maybe I could afford to buy myself a "new Poorsch" and wouldn't have to drive that old car anymore. BTW.. it was a beautiful all-original 48K original mile 911. Apparently this only impresses car-geeks like us.

3) Bad AC, no-bluetooth, can't hear the radio, loud cabin, fear of it getting stolen or damaged when parked, not practical, etc.... These are all true. Silly things like not being able to use your cell phone while driving may be an issue if you get calls from work and you're on the road.

If you're good with this... then do it! It's great fun and a great way to make life a bit more interesting. BTW... the best thing about this when I finally had a less predictable commute and wanted to go back to modern cars as a daily driver. My expectations were so low regarding road noise, features and other stuff, that every new car seemed really really nice! If you do this, you'll be able "upgrade" into a lowly BMW 320i and it'll feel faster and better than you remembered your old M3 did.

[McLaren-TAG]

I wouldn't use a 911 as a daily driver. Air bags, CAD designed crumple zones, ABS, stability control better fuel economy, proper AC and proper heat, the list goes on and on.

I agree with you about the 3.2 being "it" when it comes to air cooled Porsches to look for, but it's not a daily driver for 99% of the general population.

[JacobS911]

No, you're not crazy. I myself bought my first porsche earlier this year.. sight unseen other than a few pics. Car didn't run either. It now runs and it's absolute blast to drive! Also, never driven a porsche before owning as well.. it lives up to the hype.

I think if you find a solid driver and look into prevent maintenance you should be good. These cars are pretty stout, but have to remember they are pushing 30 years old for the years you're looking at so things do fail.. still I think a lot of guys on here drive them daily. The pelican community is pretty amazing here so you will not be alone on any issue you may encounter. I do however drive my 4runner daily..

I say do it

[Jesse16]

If you have the money and won't obsess about "lost value" and normal wear, etc.., then NC is a great place to drive an old 911 year round. (my sister is in CH) In Boone, because of salty roads I park mine in the winter but I drive it for work when the weather cooperates, no hesitation about driving in rain (unless ridiculous) for me. Think its still prudent to have a second car as its nice if something happens or needs doing, you can not stress about repair or upkeep right away. I'm a believer in preventative maintenance so I enjoy upkeep ahead of potential 30 year old car issues. That has served me well.
This video is my favorite, distills my thoughts nicely.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X_UHIqUlC9k

[NYNick]

The 912 has gone up in price along with the 911's. Personally, I'd sell the 912, add $10k, and buy a nice 911. Keep the M3 for DD. You can trade them off day to day, but the M3 won't strand you. When the 911 does, or goes down for a few days while you fix what ain't broken : ), you'll be glad you've got the BMW.

Oh, and BTW, just imagine another 150 +/- HP, a way better suspension and transmission, and you get the gist of what your 3.2 will feel like. Leaves the 912 in the dust in every way, except being a longhood.

[Slanski62]

Hi folks. Thanks for the great responses. They're very insightful and thought-provoking, and they hit all my areas of concern. With a little luck, I'll have my 912 back and looking good enough to sell in a couple of months. Maybe there will still be some accessible Carreras around!

Steve

[Bleedsblue]

At least for that past year or so, Carrera 3.2 values have hovered rather than risen (according to Hagerty and my amateur market research).

There are quite a few owners on here w/ BMW daily drivers. The two are a nice compliment when one does not have the requirement for a huge SUV. Just don't do as I do and pick a BMW w/ an engine rebuild as expensive as the 911's.

What one can and cannot daily is far too subjective for this board to answer for you. Many people prefer the newest possible car, and in heavy traffic and without the means or money to fix a car, that makes sense.

Meanwhile, there is a guy in Denver that daily drives his F40 (at least until a minivan touched him up, iirc).

I can see a Carrera 3.2 (especially a G50) being a great daily for someone who doesn't have a 50+ mile/1+ hour in traffic daily commute, and doesn't need a silent cabin with bluetooth and impeccable sound system. Well kept up, with aftermarket A/C, these cars make great dailies in that situation. Mine can return just under 30mpg on the highway.

A previous poster does have a point that this car will never be a true beater. But I don't want a beater for a daily, life is too short for that IMHO.

[Hnichols]

Is your 912 a real longhood 912 or the 912E from the mid-70s?

If it's the former I don't know if I'd get rid of it for an 80's 911. 912's are awesome; not loads of power, but you do have the BMW for that ...

As for DD-ing a Carrera or SC, why not? As long as there's no salt on the road and you don't need AC -- and it's a well-sorted specimen -- it can be a very reliable car.

[wpgelb]

Steve

I'm right down the road in Raleigh and have a 1987 911 coupe that I've been using as my daily driver for a while now. I love it. Yes, I am constantly playing with one thing or another but I find the car to be super reliable. If you're interested in driving it, I'm happy to catch up with you at some point. Candidly, I'm also contemplating selling it as we just had our third kid and it's become less and less practical for me. Let me know if you're interested.

Wes Gelb

[Bob Kontak]

Originally Posted by Slanski62

My current car is a 2012 BMW M3. It's a great car and I have no complaints with it. It starts up all the time, it's under warranty, it has good heat and A/C and it's pretty fast.

The 3.2 is a different car, but one you would enjoy. Slower, but on the upside, quirky in a good way. However, the most reduced quirkiness of the bunch.

I drove a 94 M3 - low miles - tight car - maybe around '97. Compared to my SC with 180HP (M3=225-ish hp back then?) it was breathtaking and soooo balanced. Easier car to drive but not the same.

You have all the fast you need with the newer M3.

If you have the means, drive the 3.2 everyday. I drove my SC for several years as my only car. 87-89 have the G-50. I don't think there is a lot of difference between the 84 and 85-86. They all have the 915 trans.

[timc]

I say go for it, driving a 911 as a DD is a wonderful experience. I drove a 914 as my daily back in the 70's and early 80's, a 70 and 71T as my daily for 10 years back in the 80's and 90's, and my 930 as my daily from 2006-2009, now it's more of a weekend car. I've put over 100K on my 930, and had it in over 20 states, and another 100K or more on the 70 and 71T. Based on well over 200K in 911's, I'd put a properly maintained 911 up against any car made with regards to reliability, so that's really a non issue. 911's have been the most dependable cars I have ever owned. The AC can be made to work, but the overall HVAC flow to defrost etc is the weak point, and if you can deal with that you have nothing to worry about, but you have to like 911's, as they are very unique.

[jeffbottman]

I've had my '86 Targa for 3 years, and it has become, contrary to my expectations, pretty much my daily driver. I can't stay away from it, the stupid Acura TSX is so boring in comparison. Today I kept up nicely with a Golf R driver on the way home from work, enjoyed a few freeway on/off ramps, and good-naturedly blasted the eardrums of a work colleague in his Miata. What fun!!

I've been fortunate that my car has NEVER failed to start and hasn't stranded me, over 3 years and 22,000 miles. Bought it sight unseen via ebay, which I wouldn't do again. My problems have been self-inflicted, including not latching the targa top, then having it fly off and disintegrate at freeway speeds.

I had never driven a 911 prior to my purchase, but it was a match made in heaven.

[spyerx]

Only had my 89 for a few months. Honest well maintained driver. Put a few k into it get it it all sorted to my standards but it didn't need much really. I just like constant projects.

If you can wrench a little bit these cars are pretty easy to take care of until you need some major work. Good news is chance the car depreciating as fast as your m3 are slim to none. Think of maint costs as your depreciation. The fact that a lot of these have 2-300k miles tells you something!

Any way I have a pretty high tolerance for cars but I could daily mine. It's super comfy and easy to drive. Practical and has good space and utility. They are pretty fast but you need to wind them out and get into 2-3-4 where the fun is. I love driving it fast on the street. Feels faster than it is. My rs will get me out in jail before I get to the fun zone. I save that for the track!

Probably the biggie for you living in the soth is the ac. I live in losangeles and its ok here. But we don't have the humidity of the south.

I say go for it.

[r-mm]

Gotta say I'm loving the advice here. Like that there's no high horse bs, and like hearing I'm not the only one who up and bought a 911, apropos of nothing.

ps I also have a 912. After I got my 911 (in 2013) I could not for the life of me understand how 930s were selling for just 5-10k more than Carreras. I kept saying this isn't right, I should buy one, but couldn't really justify it. And look what happened. I saw the same happen with 308GT4s. So I resolved to put my money where my mouth is and make a bet on another car I felt was under-appreciated for how cool it is. Hence, 912 (project).

[manbridge 74]

I just today PPI'd a 2011 M3 at work. I was actually impressed. 89K miles and not a single rattle or fluid leak at all. It was like driving your sofa around. A sofa that cornered well and could get up and move. Even the I-drive or whatever was intuitive and easy to pick up on.

I enjoy working on my 911 a lot. Hence my need for a DD beater when I want to do a 911 project and do it right.

Expect to pay extra to find a good one. You'll forget about the high price soon enough. Saving a bit or even a lot to end up with a needy 911 will lead to angst for most folks.

[Last911]

Buy a 3.0 to 3.6 and put it into your 912!

[gshiwota]

+1 Keep the 912 and drive the heck out of it.

I've owned several of these cars. Sure the later cars have more power and comforts but they also have more weight. A 912 can be just as fun as a 911 and if it doesn't have enough grunt for you, ditch the stock motor (pickle it and keep it) and drop a hot type-4 motor or 911 motor in it. The hardest part of owning one of these cars is finding a good one you can afford these days and it looks like you're already there.

Keep that M3 around when you need something you don't mind getting dinged at the grocery store or need to pick up the kids with muddy cleats from soccer practice. And yes, I'm afraid if you like the acceleration of your 414 HP M3, any old 911 is going to feel slow in comparison.

[jwakil]

You can use a 80s 911 as a daily driver, but I would do like I do, and have a newer truck as a backup in bad weather conditions, or if you are doing any repair to the car (no, you can't just go to Autozone and pick up a replacement part, got to wait a week for shipping in most cases). Trucks come in very handy sometimes as well. Other than that I agree with everything Gshiwota said.