Filling out the front wheel well

[tirwin]

I have tried searching for a definitive answer and I can't seem to find one, so here's my question.

I'm getting ready to redo the front suspension and I want to add wheel spacers to the front 16x6 factory Fuchs to better fill out the wheel well. I used 21mm (or maybe it was 23mm) spacers on the 16x7s on the rear and I like it. I'd like to achieve the same effect on the front but I can't seem to get a clear answer on what size spacer to use.

Right now the rear is at Euro ride height -- maybe even a little below. The front geometry is comparatively high but I can't go any lower at the moment. I will be adding the ER adjustable bump steer kit to the tie rod ends and probably raising the spindles -- maybe 20mm.

I know tire rub comes into play but I'm sure there has to be a rule of thumb to get me started.

Any advice would be welcome.

[Bleedsblue]

I haven't done the math (though Bill V surely has) on the widest one can go w/ a 16x6 et36 up front, but a 25mm spacer would make the front spacing equivalent to a stock 16x7 et 23. That would match up well with your spaced-out 16x7 rears, IMHO.

[tirwin]

Brent,

That makes sense, but I have the impression from reading many threads that the max you can go in the front is much smaller than that (7mm?). And I don't really understand why.

I have found plenty of times where people added roughly a 1" spacer to the rear but I've never seem to find a conclusive answer for the front.

Am I missing something?

[TheSt|G]

For what it's worth, moving my 7"s to the front required a fender roll.

[Bergo]

also somewhat curious, do fenders need to be rolled on a 930 to fit 9" fronts?

[Bill Verburg]

Originally Posted by tirwin

I have tried searching for a definitive answer and I can't seem to find one, so here's my question.

I'm getting ready to redo the front suspension and I want to add wheel spacers to the front 16x6 factory Fuchs to better fill out the wheel well. I used 21mm (or maybe it was 23mm) spacers on the 16x7s on the rear and I like it. I'd like to achieve the same effect on the front but I can't seem to get a clear answer on what size spacer to use.

Right now the rear is at Euro ride height -- maybe even a little below. The front geometry is comparatively high but I can't go any lower at the moment. I will be adding the ER adjustable bump steer kit to the tie rod ends and probably raising the spindles -- maybe 20mm.

I know tire rub comes into play but I'm sure there has to be a rule of thumb to get me started.

Any advice would be welcome.

What fits is a combination of width/Et and height

here are the stock specs for 7x16ET23.3 w/ 205/55 tires
tire front space, tire back space OD in inches
3.12 4.95 24.9

I have used on my car up to 235/45 x17 on 8ET25
tire specs are
3.52 5.48 25.3

this required a lot of work to use and limited ride height

I also used this setup a while back
7x16 ET23/3 +5mm spacer 205/55 tires
specs are
3.28 4.72 24.9
this also required a lot of work, from shaved lips to limited ride height though not as limited as w/ the above 17s

a lot depends on the tire OD a 205/50 x16 is going to be shorter and thus easier to fit than a 205/55. Ride height and suspension also enter into it for the most extreme fitments.

[Bleedsblue]

Originally Posted by tirwin

Brent,

That makes sense, but I have the impression from reading many threads that the max you can go in the front is much smaller than that (7mm?). And I don't really understand why.

I have found plenty of times where people added roughly a 1" spacer to the rear but I've never seem to find a conclusive answer for the front.

Am I missing something?

I haven't searched this topic myself, so I can't speak to what you've read. I could definitely tell with my 16x6s mounted up front that there was an additional inch of outboard space to be had. I moved my 7s up front and got 8" Euros for the rear, so I dealt with this problem another way, but I thought the 6s and 7s were too skinny, like you.

I forgot to throw out the standard disclaimers about individual ride height, tire width, tire brand, etc, all being contributing factors. I just know how the 7 fits the front, and a 25mm spacer puts the outer rim of the 6 at the same place as the 7.

Originally Posted by TheSt|G

For what it's worth, moving my 7"s to the front required a fender roll.

My car did not (w/ a bulging sidewall Conti DW 205/55/16, or a square sidewall Z2* 225/45/16), but I have some negative camber, not sure how much exactly. IIRC I'm about 25" from ground to fender up front.

I didn't measure, but it's all possible the 205 on a 6 bulged more than it did on a 7, which may necessitate a roll.

[tirwin]

Yep, I'm running the Conti DW 205/55R16 on the front. (I've really liked these tires by the way, though they are my first set I've used since I bought the car.)

I will go back and look at which size spacer I put on the rear but it was either the 21mm or 23mm DRM from H&R. It sounds like I would be ok with the same size if the net offset is the same as using a true 7x16 up front.

Like I said, in many of the threads I had read people stated conclusively what they used on the rear but I couldn't seem to find a straight answer on the front.

If I'm missing something here, you'll have to bear with me.

[LJ851]

16 inch fuchs 6,7, and 8 inch wide all have the same backspacing. All the extra width is in the lip or towards the outside of the car.

People run the 16x7 on the front all the time but some require a fender roll. I would try a 20mm or so spacer which would put the outside lip 5mm shy of where the 16X7 lip would be.

[Bill Verburg]

Originally Posted by tirwin

Yep, I'm running the Conti DW 205/55R16 on the front. (I've really liked these tires by the way, though they are my first set I've used since I bought the car.)

I will go back and look at which size spacer I put on the rear but it was either the 21mm or 23mm DRM from H&R. It sounds like I would be ok with the same size if the net offset is the same as using a true 7x16 up front.

Like I said, in many of the threads I had read people stated conclusively what they used on the rear but I couldn't seem to find a straight answer on the front.

If I'm missing something here, you'll have to bear with me.

It's not the offset that is the concern it is the front space

the Conti DW is also a wide tire the 205/55 has a section width of 8.4 on a 6.5, ~8.3 on a 6
specs are
2.08 4.92 24.9

so a 1" spacer gives
3.08 3.92 24.9

the front space is just a tad less than a 7ET23.3 w/ the same tire

[Trackrash]

Originally Posted by LJ851

16 inch fuchs 6,7, and 8 inch wide all have the same backspacing. All the extra width is in the lip or towards the outside of the car.

People run the 16x7 on the front all the time but some require a fender roll. I would try a 20mm or so spacer which would put the outside lip 5mm shy of where the 16X7 lip would be.

+1

It is true that 7s will fit on the front with 205s. And that the 7s have the extra inch added to the outside of the wheel compared to the 6s.

The difference is when you mount a 205 on a 7 inch wheel the tire is stretched and the outside of the tread only moves over 1/2 inch compared to being mounted on a 6.

If you stay with a 205 probably a 20mm spacer will be good. Keep in mind that there are other factors like alignment and ride height that may require you do roll your fenders anyway.

Additionally your scrub radius will be affected. So don't expect the steering to be unaffected.

[TheSt|G]

Originally Posted by Bleedsblue

My car did not (w/ a bulging sidewall Conti DW 205/55/16, or a square sidewall Z2* 225/45/16), but I have some negative camber, not sure how much exactly. IIRC I'm about 25" from ground to fender up front.

I didn't measure, but it's all possible the 205 on a 6 bulged more than it did on a 7, which may necessitate a roll.

I'm running a 205/55 AS/3. Michelins tend to run wider than others, so that could be the difference.

[tirwin]

Thanks, fellas!

I just found my old receipt and I used a 21mm on the rear and I think that is the smallest size they make in the DRM series. I'm going to give that a try. The geometry is going to change with the new suspension work, alignment and corner balance all being done at the same time so hopefully I can get this dialed in right.

Bill V, I love those Fiske wheels on your targa!

EDIT: sorry... Kinesis, not Fiske.

I have debated on going to 17x7/8 but I really am pleased with my polished Fuchs.

[Bleedsblue]

Originally Posted by TheSt|G

I'm running a 205/55 AS/3. Michelins tend to run wider than others, so that could be the difference.

Most definitely. What about your ride height and camber?

Originally Posted by tirwin

Thanks, fellas!

I just found my old receipt and I used a 21mm on the rear and I think that is the smallest size they make in the DRM series. I'm going to give that a try. The geometry is going to change with the new suspension work, alignment and corner balance all being done at the same time so hopefully I can get this dialed in right.

Bill V, I love those Fiske wheels on your targa!

EDIT: sorry... Kinesis, not Fiske.

I have debated on going to 17x7/8 but I really am pleased with my polished Fuchs.

21mm will be a safe choice, and damn close to 25mm

I almost went to 17s for the tire choice, but couldn't get over the look of 16s--as big as I can stand on impact bumpers.

[IROC]

Just for the fun of it, here is a pic of the 245/45-16s I used to run on 8x16s in the front. 275s in the rear on 9s. No rubbing. I'd have to measure again, but the backspacing was about 6.125" IIRC. The front wheel wells are "filled out" for sure:



I'm in a long, drawn-out process of converting the wheels to 17s, and will probably wimp out and run 225s.

[tirwin]

^^^ That's exactly the look I'm going for. The rears are filled quite well. Looking forward to getting the front looking right too.

[Trackrash]

I bit the bullet and sprang for a pair of 8s. 225 front and 246 rears on 7 and 8 by 16s.

[tirwin]

Well, I'll tell ya...

I bought this car 4 years ago for what was then considered a pretty fair price, but it needed some work. Back then SCs were pretty ho-hum. I wanted to get the car sorted out and I made a plan and started working. I had wanted this car to be a fun driver and occasional AX/DE car.

Now I'm watching as SC prices are really taking off and my fellow SC owners are dropping like flies, apparently taking advantage of the run-up in the market. Now I am a couple of small projects from being pretty much done with my original plan and I am having second thoughts about what to do long run. I am also wondering what I'll do without a project to work on.

I may just call this one done and start thinking about another project.

I would be lying if I said I hadn't thought about selling this car and moving on to something else but it just puts a smile on my face every time I get in it. I think I would regret selling it. Plus it would be a shame to put the work in and not enjoy it.

[patz]

I have a one inch spacer on 16x6s with a 205/50 tire. No rub. Same size spacer isn the rear with 225/50 and 7s.

[Trackrash]

Originally Posted by tirwin

Well, I'll tell ya...

I bought this car 4 years ago for what was then considered a pretty fair price, but it needed some work. Back then SCs were pretty ho-hum. I wanted to get the car sorted out and I made a plan and started working. I had wanted this car to be a fun driver and occasional AX/DE car.

Now I'm watching as SC prices are really taking off and my fellow SC owners are dropping like flies, apparently taking advantage of the run-up in the market. Now I am a couple of small projects from being pretty much done with my original plan and I am having second thoughts about what to do long run. I am also wondering what I'll do without a project to work on.

I may just call this one done and start thinking about another project.

I would be lying if I said I hadn't thought about selling this car and moving on to something else but it just puts a smile on my face every time I get in it. I think I would regret selling it. Plus it would be a shame to put the work in and not enjoy it.

I had considered selling my '71 from time to time. The dilemma is what to buy that would replace it?

Once you start AXing and DEing you will have plenty of things to do on your car.