Knock pop clunk from steering when I turn left shaply

[sugarwood]

A singular knock/pop/clunk/thump when I turn left sharply.
Not sure if it's in the steering column or the suspension or the wheels.
I also heard the pop when I came down off a speed bump, and loaded the front suspension.

So, I guess this is only at low speeds, as I wouldn't turn sharply except nearing the driveway, etc.

Wheel does not bind, and controls the car as usual.

I have under 1000 miles on my Mitch Leland bushing, so it's not that...

Any ideas on what modules I can troubleshoot?
Where do I look, and please be specific if possible.
I know little to nothing about the steering mechanism.


UPDATE:
I believe I found the problem.
Sway bar / steering rack cover plate allen bolts were loose.
The sound seems to be gone!


[/IMG]

[KNS]

Not saying this is your problem but I had once developed a "clunk" when I would make left hand turns. I could swear the sound was coming from the front underside of the car.
Turns out it was a loose rear sway bar drop link.

Check everything under the car.

[ben parrish]

Years ago had something similar...turned out to be a loose transmission mount. The weight transfer of the sharp turn created enough twist in the car to make it bump.

[sugarwood]

I'll jack the car up and try to jiggle some suspension stuff around.
When your rear sway bar drop link was bad, what did you notice when under the car?

I'll also try to turn the steering wheel with the front raised.
If I get a pop, then I'll get a helper so I can try to see where it's happening.

I will also grab the wheel to do the wheel bearing test.

[Oh Haha]

Check the condition of the steering shaft u-joints as well. Use a bit of light oil on them. They become "dry" after many years and may bind occasionally.

[KNS]

Originally Posted by sugarwood

I'll jack the car up and try to jiggle some suspension stuff around.
When your rear sway bar drop link was bad, what did you notice when under the car?

One of the bolts connecting the sway bar to the drop link was a bit loose, simple as that.

[sugarwood]

Originally Posted by Oh Haha

Check the condition of the steering shaft u-joints as well. Use a bit of light oil on them. They become "dry" after many years and may bind occasionally.

I'm going to jack up the car now, as I've never had to take notice of any steering components before. So, I'm not even sure where to look, Besides the smuggler's box, any specific places I should look?

[Bob Kontak]

Rack and pinion steering. Tie rods connecting to big strut spindle. They push and pull the spindle and the spindle pivots on the strut and the lower ball joint

Possible noise areas off the top of my head:
Strut bushings up top
Ball joint on the bottom - On jack stands, carefully take a little load off the torsion bar control arm just inward of where it connects to the ball joint (it's pushing the wheel down). Pull hard on wheel at 12 and six o'clock.
Strut mounting point on bottom (should be fixed with a pin - no pivoting here - only moves when spindle moves) Loose = danger.
Tie rod - inner and outer. Easy check for slop by moving wheel back and forth at three and nine o'clock
Steering column connection to rack tower - probably slim chance here.
Steering column U-joint
Column bushing
Torsion bar assembly mounting points.
Tired inner / outer wheel bearings
Loose wheel
Sway bar bushings to body and associated mounts
Sway bar links
Sway bar link mounting points

Keep the wheels on. Put the stands under the front part of the torsion bar mount. It's been a while. I may have put them under the tubes with the mount being a safety so there could be no sliding off. Steering rack is under a big rectangular plate. Couple of larger allen head bolts and maybe two 17MM or so bolts.

Before removing the pan you can spin the steering wheel by manually turning the tires with key in on position. See if you pick up noise and try to isolate location doing this. If it's a suspension load issue, may not isolate.

[sugarwood]

1. Strut bushings up top
2. Ball joint on the bottom - On jack stands, carefully take a little load off the torsion bar control arm just inward of where it connects to the ball joint (it's pushing the wheel down). Pull hard on wheel at 12 and six o'clock.
3. Strut mounting point on bottom (should be fixed with a pin - no pivoting here - only moves when spindle moves) Loose = danger.
4. Tie rod - inner and outer. Easy check for slop by moving wheel back and forth at three and nine o'clock
5. Steering column connection to rack tower - probably slim chance here.
6. Steering column U-joint
7. Column bushing
8. Torsion bar assembly mounting points.
9. Tired inner / outer wheel bearings
10. Loose wheel
11. Sway bar bushings to body and associated mounts
12. Sway bar links
13. Sway bar link mounting points

Thanks, that's a load of info.
Let me try to sort this out.

#1 How do I check for play?

#2 Not sure what I am supposed to do without pictures. I know none of these part's names. Am I supposed to jack under the suspension itself and then check for ball joint play?

#3 I'll look for pin.

#4 I can check

#5 Skip

#6 Where do I look?

#7 Replaced recently Leland.

#8 No idea what this is.

#9 No grinding sound, but will spin wheels when in the air

#10 Will verify lug bolts

#11-13 How do I check? Just yank and look for play? Is that the bar that goes under the steering rack cover plate?
That cover plate is a headache to reinstall, as I think mine may be bent. Holes would not line up. Then the other 2 hex bolts barely reach until the load is back on the wheels.
Took me over an hour last time, and that wasn't my first time. I am going to avoid this one, if possible.

Steering rack is under a big rectangular plate. Couple of larger allen head bolts and maybe two 17MM or so bolts.

What exactly am I checking for by looking at the steering rack? (If I have to resort to removing cover plate)

[Bob Kontak]

OK chill on steering rack cover plate.

I just dumped out everything I could think of.

Let's start one at a time.

Get front of car in the air held up by two jack stands. Do you know where to put them so you won't get squished?

Perfectly ok with me that you are not familiar with parts and function. At least you have the sense to admit it. Make sure it is safe. I don't want to go down in history as the guy that flattened sugarwood.

[sugarwood]

Quick update. The next 2 times I drove the car, there has been NO popping sound.
So, I will just shelve this.

I did jack the car and test for wheel bearing play (3 and 9pm)
and ball joint play (12 and 6pm) Seemed fine.
It was amazing how easy the steering wheel turned with no weight on the tires!

[Bob Kontak]

Originally Posted by sugarwood

Quick update. The next 2 times I drove the car, there has been NO popping sound.
So, I will just shelve this.

I did jack the car and test for wheel bearing play (3 and 9pm)
and ball joint play (12 and 6pm) Seemed fine.
It was amazing how easy the steering wheel turned with no weight on the tires!

Cool beans.

If there is something odd in the steering wheel, column, u-joints, rack and tie rods, it's pretty easy to pick it up just from the feedback you feel through the tires. There is usually noise that goes along with it.

Wheel bearing play will surface at any point on the tire clock. Little force is required to assess. Same with three and nine for tie rods. Ball joints are a little trickier and I am no wizard at this but to be sure I usually get some sort of a long bar wedged between the ball joint lower connection point and the ball joint upper connection and leverage the two apart and look for movement.

These pry bars are a lifesaver for so many tasks and the larger two will do the ball joint check.

Pry Bar Set - 4 Piece

[sugarwood]

I have a similar pry bar set.
Let me know if anyone comes across a way to test ball joints.

[sugarwood]

Ok, this seems to have gotten significantly more pronounced.
I get a clear popping/clunking when I go over bumps.

The last I checked above, there was no bearing or ball joint play on the raised up wheel.
What should I be looking for now?

[tirwin]

I had this recently after I ran new A/C hoses. The belly pan is part of the sway bar connection point and I didn't snug it up properly when I put it back together. Just a thought.

[Bob Kontak]

Originally Posted by tirwin

The belly pan is part of the sway bar connection point and I didn't snug it up properly when I put it back together. Just a thought.

Third from last in my post #8, September 26th list. That is over a month ago.

Originally Posted by sugarwood

What should I be looking for now?

You have a list. Why do you keep asking the same question? Look up the front sway bar for sale on pelican. See what it looks like. Find it under your car. Find where it bolts up. Four points usually. Two to the body and two to the suspension.

The sway bar twists (slightly) like a big spring in the two body mount bushings. When your left side lifts and the right side stays at sort of the same height (yes, it scrunches some in this scenario) the elongated U shaped sway bar will resist the left lifting more because it is tied into the right side suspension (through the body mounts.) It's something like that.

Get under that car and start sniffing with that pry bar.

Sway bar, tie rod ends, ball joints are notorious noise makers. Tie rods and ball joints have pretty much been eliminated.

Control arms on regular cars make make noise as well over bumps but they do not have a torsion bar running through them. I don't know if the spring loading on the Porsche control arm will quiet a bushing even if it's tired.

Every day cars



911

[sugarwood]

Got under the car tonight, and tried to sniff around.
Didn't really know what to do, or where to use the pry bar.

I did not see anything obvious:

1) Sway bar cover plate was secure and not loose.

2) Sway bar bushings ...Only thing I noticed was there was a clean section that was exposed. Meaning, it's like the bar shifted, and what used to be under the bushing was now exposed (and very clean looking)

3) I tried to jiggle the sway bar, and it would not move. I tried to use pry bar, as well.

4) I looked the the tie rod ends. They seemed fine. With tires elevated, I steered the car by pushing the tires, and there didn't seem to be any play in the tie rod ends. I also steered via the steering wheel, and the wheels seemed very responsive. No play. But, this was with no load on the tires.

5) With front on jack stands, I jacked up the front tire to compress the shock. Then I would release it. There was no sound from this. It was cool to observe the A-arm move and the tire was loaded.

Not sure where to go from here, besides taking it to a shop.

[Baby]

have you verified that it's not the rear sway bar as kns suggested? you want to do this with the car on the ground. just check that the bushings are in place and the bolts are torqued.

[Bob Kontak]

Originally Posted by sugarwood

Didn't really know what to do, or where to use the pry bar.

Pry bar is simply to put pressure on places that should not move. If it moves then you can dig deeper.

Just take time to study the suspension and steering. It is busy under there but everything has a function.

Something is loading and then releasing making the pop noise. First blush is tie rods. You turn the wheel, you get unhappy binding, metal on metal something or an other and then the binding is overcome by the turning of the wheel and pop goes the weasel.

I wish you folks lived in Ohio. Christ, there is nobody here. Two heads go a long way.

[sugarwood]

Originally Posted by Bob Kontak

Something is loading and then releasing making the pop noise. First blush is tie rods. You turn the wheel, you get unhappy binding, metal on metal something or an other and then the binding is overcome by the turning of the wheel and pop goes the weasel.

I wish you folks lived in Ohio. Christ, there is nobody here. Two heads go a long way.

To clarify, I am now getting the clunk when going over bumps, not as much from turning.

Funny, I feel the exact same way about where I live!