arrg valve adjust

[redstack]

I have just spent two very frustrating days trying to adjust the valves on my 84. I had so many advantages, a rented lift, a Porsche dial indicator, the kirk tool, two different feeler gauges. But I would adjust, then check. then adjust, then check, then adjust. It was no better at the end than the star

I was never able to get the feeler gauges to work, I couldn't find the slot if I couldn't see it. ( insert snicker here)

The hick tool worked once I learned how to balance the wrench and keep the tool on the rocker and then turn the knob. But it only worked 40% of the time. After every adjustment I would swing the dial indicator into position and despite my best efforts, it would be off again, sometimes by a bunch, like, 0,6mm. But I kept at it until the DI read 1mm.

Finally after a total of about 9 hours, I had them all done, so I started to go again to check. HOLY MOLY some were way off again! I double checked that I was on the right cylinder, But then I needed to spend another hour redoing that cylinder.

The only real thing I didn't have was a thin six point box wrench. I had a thin open end wrench, which I found hard to keep on, but then there were times when I wondered how you could get by with only half a turn anyway.

So any great advice about how the heck to get this job done right without going 50 miles to a shop that can do it for me? I do lots of work on boats and all other repairs to this one, but now I'm stymied.

[LakeCleElum]

After working on motorcycles for 50 years, it seems to come natural to me.

I loosen all the lock nuts first and back off the screw a turn or so. When the crank is in the correct position for that cylinder, feeler goes right in. Lightly seat the adjust screw and then hold it in that position to tighten locknut.......

[Daves911L]

^^^
What he said. It is not a difficult thing. You may be over thinking it a bit. The dial indicator is probably causing the trouble, giving false and unrepeatable readings. Are you moving the rockers sideways when you try and read the gauge? Seeing the dial at a funny angle? Maybe the mounting allows a little wiggle?

I don't know what a Kirk tool is. A simple feeler blade with an angle bend at the end, a 13mm wrench (open end will work, though offset box end is better), and a good stubby screwdriver is all that is needed.

Loosen the lock nuts, back off the adjuster foot out a couple of threads, slip the blade in, and run the adjuster foot back down on the blade. If there is a trick, it is not tightening the foot against the blade with any more force than your finger can provide. The feeler blade should move readily in and out with only light pressure. You get a feel for it. Tighten the nut while using the screwdriver to prevent the adjuster foot from tightening any more. When done, withdraw the feeler blade. It should come out without effort, just a very slight drag.

A lift? Bah, thats for sissies!

[redstack]

one issue was some of the lock nuts didn't move very smoothly. but yea I think you are right about over thinking it.

thanks guys

[Cevan]

Can I ask why you loosen all the lock nuts? I've yet to do a valve adjust on my 3.2 but on my 914 and various motorcycles, I'd always check first and only loosen the nut if that particular valve needed adjusting.

[cashman]

Because its not the easiest thing for for a novice to slip the feeler gauge in the gap. Easier to just undo the nut and give yourself some space.

[carreradpt]

Originally Posted by cashman

Because its not the easiest thing for for a novice to slip the feeler gauge in the gap. Easier to just undo the nut and give yourself some space.

It just takes a bit of practice. Get comfortable with the location of the gap at an easy cylinder, loosen the lock nut, open the gap a bit and slide the feeler in from the side (of the feeler gauge) and get a good feel for where it is. Make sure you are on the correct cylinder and go thru them in the proper firing order until you get the hang of it. Loosening the gap just makes it easier to get that feeler in. Good luck.

[universeman]

As another valve job noobie, how does one know it's time to do this job? Is it just mileage, or is there a sound you can hear with engine running?

[Cevan]

Originally Posted by cashman

Because its not the easiest thing for for a novice to slip the feeler gauge in the gap. Easier to just undo the nut and give yourself some space.

Personally, I'd want to know after 15,000 miles of driving whether any of the valves are way out of line (either too tight or too loose) as both can cause internal damage.

[Charles Freeborn]

It's a "feel" thing. I grew up with Honda motorcycles (same valve train configuration, but .002 lash...) and VW's, so it's pretty instinctual for me too. It's all practice. Like the jazz players say, the first 20 years are the hardest. It's all practice and patience.
I'd lose the dial indicator too. The little Pelican feeler gauge tool is a must. Get a bunch of extra blades too. I use a fresh one each adjust. Also essential is a comfortable creeper, or lift and a stool. Find or modify a screwdriver so that it fits snugly into the slot of the adjusting screw, and a 12 pt box wrench is important.
-C

[JSV798]

+1 on the adjustment tool. I wouldn't attempt a valve adjust without it. Get it here from our hosts:

Porsche 911 (1974-1989) - Tools - Page 8

[JSV798]

It's the one with part number PEL-TOL-P213 at $5.50 and get the replacement blades displayed just above: part no. PEL-TOL-B10MM at $6.40 ( comes in pack of three)

[LakeCleElum]

Originally Posted by universeman

As another valve job noobie, how does one know it's time to do this job? Is it just mileage, or is there a sound you can hear with engine running?

Porsche air cooled usually get tighter with wear. You won't hear that; only a ticking of loose valves. Best to check at the recommended intervals.

I have a Honda ST 1300 with 128,000 miles.....If out of adjustment, you have to pull the cams to get to the shims. I check every 16,000 miles as recommended. To date, no adjustment needed.

[JSV798]

Might also want to check out this video from Home which shows how to do a 911 service

[Otter74]

The advice I was given was to check the valves and adjust as needed every other oil change or so, roughly 10k miles. I'd be happy if I can safely wait til 15k miles, but this seems like a good interval, especially at the rate at which I rack up mileage.

The PO was doing an oil change and valve adjustment when I picked my car up, so I won't have to worry about it for a while.

[Driver_X]

And the likely hood is, that the valves will make more noise after adjustment.

First time I did it, I went through twice. Once to adjust, and then another time through to check my work. Total time less than 2 hrs. To be fair I had experience with VW so i knew the "feel", but this was my first 911. You are totally over thinking this....

[OsoMoore]

If you can find/make a friend in your area who has done it already, it helps a lot. Is NWFL Newfoundland?

[redstack]

NW FL northwest Florida... I guess I need a space in there.

I had the old guy, leaning over my shoulder all the time, but not giving any helpful advice, just more tools and laughing.

[john walker's workshop]

I assume you have the proper feeler gauge holder. Forget the fancy dial gauges, etc, they just get in your way. Do whatever it takes to get the feeler in there and adjust for some drag on the gauge. If it slips in and out easily, it's still too loose. Should take a couple of twists in and out. I like to tighten and leave the gauge in place and give it a few twists until I feel slight resistance. Tighten the nut and recheck. Don't go all gorilla on the nuts, or the threads will suffer.

[walt]

You could check your work with the backside method that might help get your comfort level up. A search will show you how.