DIY Skills

[kagangen]

I have wanted to restore an older 911 for at least 10 years but have not done so as I do not have the required skills. I dont know how to weld and have limited capabilities as far as engine repair is concerned.

For all of those who post on here (and do mind blowingly great work), where did most of you learn? Are you mechanics to begin with, learn from dad, or did you go to school as I am thinking of doing?? If you went to school, which is generally the best ?

Thanks

Jeff

[wdfifteen]

I started as a kid, building wooden go-karts when I was 9 or 10. From there it was bicycles, then VWs in my teens- all self-taught. I graduated to 356s when I was 19. I had two! One was smashed in the front and one was smashed in the back. I cut them in two and welded them together. Over the years I've rebuild a hundred or so VW and 356 engines. I've embarked on a 911 top end rebuild now.

This forum is a goldmine of information and advice. It has been a Godsend to me more than once. Hang around here, read every day, you'll learn a lot and when you do start a project the great people here will answer your questions in no time.

[universeman]

+1 on the forum. Also get the Bentley manual (forget Haynes, it's worthless.)

Literally if you can tell right from left (in order to know which way to turn to loosen and tighten things) - you can maintain an old 911. It takes some patience, so that is the #1 thing to remember, you can't give up and get frustrated.

It helps if you have another car, so that you're not in "have to get it back together to get to work" mode.

Go slow, start with the basic stuff, and you'll be surprised how easy it can be. Not every project is going to go smoothly, so just realize that before you take something on. These cars were built by hand by normal Germans who went to school 40 years ago - if they could put it together, you can take it apart, fix it, and put it back together!

I rebuilt a 1967 Mustang in high school, and do oil changes on my wife's car and mine but really I just don't have a fear about turning a bolt. I've gotten better as I've worked on this car, that's for sure. Go for it!

[Mick_D]

As regards Bentley manuals: Don't they start with model year 1978? Is there one available for 1975 ?

[JRSIII]

Absolutely agree about this forum and Bentley. Equipped with those two tools, you can tackle many projects on your own. I started working on cars in high school/college as I had to do most of my own work on my starter car, a 1978 Mustang II. Since buying it new, I've owned a 1993 Chevy C1500 with a 350 that now has about 360,000 miles on it. I've done much of the work on that myself (in addition to getting to know a few good shade tree mechanics for those things I couldn't or didn't want to do) again just learning by reading shop manuals and asking questions. I'm new to the Porsche world, and it's a whole different animal than a Chevy truck, but if you have patience, can read directions, and ask questions, it's doable. I'm not going to attempt to rebuild an engine or anything like that, but things like brakes, shocks, accessories, etc. I'm finding that I can manage.

[Charles Freeborn]

As a kid first with my dad, then on into High School where I learned to weld, machine, engine work and body work. Back in the 70's there were fully equipped shops (wood, metal, Auto & home ec) in the public schools. Mostly if not all gone now. And no, there isn't an app for that....
As for your project, jump in and don't be afraid to ask. Look in the regional section for others in your area. Go to track days, ax days, join local your sports car club and or PCA to meet people. Once you get talking, it's a really welcoming world. And don't get all hinkey about it.... it's just a car...
-C

[Jamesrlong]

+1 This forum

When i got my Porsche I had no experience with carburetors. With help from Pelican members i got it all cleaned out adjusted and got the car running in less than a week. Dont worry about asking anything on here. There are no Dumb questions here. ive asked some very basic stuff and always got quick and friendly advice. And as far as Porsche's go they are fairly easy to work on. Good luck

[Techno Duck]

Most important is to know when you are in over your head and when to take it to a pro. I consider myself very mechanically inclined but there are some things i dont want to even bother with, one of those being most forms of body work.

I think the other very important thing, especially with limited mechanical abilities is to thoroughly research everything before you start. When i was younger i was extremely lucky to have Rennlist, Pelican (look at my join date!), ClarksGarage (the #1 resource for a 944 owner) and 924Board to learn from. I would not have been able to maintain the cars i had otherwise.

My father got me into that DIY attitude, he is no master mechanic or handyman but he took on some pretty big projects when i was younger; some of which Include retrofitting baseboard heaters into the house and rebuilding an automatic transmission in the driveway.

The first job i did on a car was replacing the intake manifold gaskets on my 924S with him watching me. From there i graduated to oil changes, brakes and general tune ups on all the cars in the family (5 total). I worked one summer and a winter break in a shop my father owned that serviced taxi's. The mechanic here taught me a ton of stuff and this is where i really learned a bunch. My second car, a 944 i learned a bunch on keeping it running, this was sort of my intro to learning about suspensions and engine work. My third, a 944 Turbo was basically a complete mechanical restoration (no bolt or screw left unturned) in the 5 years i daily drove it. After owning the car 8 years it is now my track car and has an LS1 engine i built and swapped in. Having been a 944 owner for so long worked well because i started out with the easy to work on one, then moved on to the 944 Turbo which is the same engine, just more complex.

As far as formal education, i went to maritime academy for marine engineering. For the past 8 years i have been working offshore on tug boats, tankers and now a drillship.

As far as schools, i would take a look at a place like UTI if you want formal training. Personally i would look for a mentor, know anyone nearby that is mechanically inclined? Ask them to help or coach you through some jobs. Another option is if your friendly with any shops is to ask them if you can hang around the shop a day or two a week and help out. Offer to help clean up the shop at the end of the day in exchange for letting you shadow them.

Pick some projects on your 911 that seem do-able and dive in by researching. Take on some small projects first to get yourself comfortable.

[82 SC]

My parents and grandparents used to give me their old appliances to take apart when I was a kid. I did not get into car repair till I was in College. I had a cv joint boot go bad on my VW jetta and a mechanic put a new boot on it. It started to click when turning soon after the boot was fixed and I did not want or afford to have the mechanic fix it again. I thought what is the difference with the mechanic and me? He had the tools and knowledge and a place to do it. SO I went and bought my first set of tools from Sears with jack and jack stands and the Bentley repair manual. Got the parts and pulled the car into my Frats party room and went to work. Not hard, messy for sure and learned a lot. Surprised myself that I fixed it! I still have the CV joint as a souvenir. Ended up fixing a buddy s jetta soon after. Put on a used control arm! LOL! Later i got a decent job and made a little extra money and bought a beat up VW Thing. Found another one and put the two together in the parking lot of my town home. Used Car covers for both of them. Lucky I had great older neighbors and they did not mind me playing mechanic.
When working on old cars and driving them you meet similar minded people. Networking with others and talking over beer about cars is my hobbies and I learn and love to work on them.
SO get a manual, read read read, forums and find some locals that will help you out. YouTube is also very good source of info. Wish I had it back in the day! LOL! Cheers....

[jimtweet]

I am not sure where you are located, but I found many people on this forums willing to lend a hand for a burger and beers. I cant imagine tackling half the stuff I did without their knowledge. This is a great forum with a lot of great guys.

I am now onto building my 4th Pcar and have never looked back

[boyt911sc]

Originally Posted by kagangen

I have wanted to restore an older 911 for at least 10 years but have not done so as I do not have the required skills. I dont know how to weld and have limited capabilities as far as engine repair is concerned.

For all of those who post on here (and do mind blowingly great work), where did most of you learn? Are you mechanics to begin with, learn from dad, or did you go to school as I am thinking of doing?? If you went to school, which is generally the best ?

Thanks

Jeff

Jeff,

It all depends on your desire and motivation to learn and spend lots of hands on experience to develop any skill like automotive restoration. Attending a vocational school is a good start and finding a mentor is a plus. Don't hesitate to seek advise and solicit help as needed. Most of us started from scratch and eventually develop a certain level of proficiency in DIY.

This forum would be a very good source of help and contact. I have not rebuilt a motor before joining this forum. As of today, I am finishing my 14th motor and hope to start it before Thanksgiving Day. But I would not have reached this stage without the help from fellow PP members. My next goal is to learn to paint and weld.

Tony

[Charles Freeborn]

Originally Posted by Techno Duck

Most important is to know when you are in over your head and when to take it to a pro.

This is VERY good advice. There is also the "point of diminishing return" It simply isn't sensible to buy specialized tools that you will only use once, such as measuring devices for setting internal tolerances in engines. Sure I could do an alignment with levels and string, but I'd rather have a shop with a $50k rack do it right.... I draw the line at what I can do with hand tools, gas and TIG welder and a good set of jackstands. I do have a pal with a lift, so occasionally I'll take it to his shop to spare my aging back...
-C

[zippy_gg]

You will find that most members have hands on experience, and gaining more as time goes by.
This section of the forum is outstanding and quite a different experience than the Audi forum I also belong to, where in the A6 section you will find great technical advice while in the A4 section the most common questions are what type of wheels look good on the car; Different crowd in each section of that Audi forum!

So far I have learned how to drop my engine-transmission, replace suspension bushings, wheel bearing, steering rack maintenance, air conditioning components replacement (as in all of them), and the list goes on.

In addition to the knowledge I even received assistance from some local members, got tools loaned out to me, etc... It doesn't get any better than that!

[Dpmulvan]

There's nothing more rewarding than restoring a vehicle,boat,airplane or house.

[NY65912]

I grew up in a family of mechanics. The family and extended family (friends) were plumbers, electricians, tile/marble/terrazzo, trowel trades, carpenters, drywall guys and automotive & truck mechanics. Being around all these people and working every school holiday and vacation helping one of these guys one could not help absorb at least some of the trade.

I guess that hanging out with the older guys who had souped up cars in the school yard and tagging along really planted the car fix seeds into me. When I was about 15 I went down to our family friends service station and asked for an old engine to take home and learn about it. It was an in line Ford six. I them started haning out in the service station doing small odd jobs and pumping gas. I really liked working on cars. I took auto shop class 2 years, it was only offered for 1 year but the shop teacher and I would talk hot rods and drag racing and he let me take it again.

My cousin and best friend had really good skills and we would work on his 40 ford coupe. We both learned as we tackled bigger and bigger projects. Then we got into VW's and it was all down hill from there. We would be able to drop an engine in less than 10 min if we teamed up as well rebuilding engines and hot rodding engines.

My cousing had a cousin that wrecked a '67 911S. We had thoughts of swapping the engine into my KG but I sent the engine to Claudes Buggies for all kinds of goodies and had an 1835cc that was kick ass. We did howerer graft the 901 transaxle into it, not an easy task.

So, for me it was exposure at a young age. If you have "good hands" and a mechanical mind then I say you can learn a ton through the BBS and books. But, there is nothing like getting dirty and challanging oneself. I say go for it. Sorry for the rant, but so many thoughts came rushing into my head when I tried to think about how I got into cars and working on them. GOOD LUCK

[Dave Colangelo]

Ill throw some thoughts in the mix on this one.

TLDR;

I started tinkering with Porsches in high school (a little over 8 years ago now) and have had 3 in the process and done lots of work on all of them (924S -> 944 -> 911SC Targa). I had absolutely no knowledge of cars when I got the 924S (It didn't run at the time). It took me about 4 months of tinkering and lots of reading here and other 924/944 forums to really get it going. I learned a lot along the way and made my fair share of terrible (and sometimes costly) mistakes. When it comes to classic car projects the question you really need to ask yourself is

What do you want out of the project?

Everyone has a different answer to this and that answer will drive you to pick the right project for you. The most common answer I have heard are,

1. I want a classic driver in original state and Im not to concerned how I get their.
2. I want a classic track car to run around on the weekends and maybe to the coffee shop once in a while
3. I really really like turning wrenches, its kind of meditative for me, if the car never runs thats ok I plan to tackle this over time.

Now before I get to expanding on this let me first say that I am a firm believer that any skill can be learned and these cars can be completely restored by a single person as is evidenced here. I will also say that some of these skills may take a life time to perfect which brings us into the time constraint of many peoples projects. Anyway,

1) This answer tends to be from the individuals who are into the purity of the car and the drive. They will often have one trusted mechanic who fixes the car for them while they simply foot the bill. For them classics are about driving and looking at, either they don't have time or don't have a desire to wrench them and either of those is ok. There are plenty of people in this category who will get beat up cars/chassis/engines and have them professionally restored. You will also find these people at the swap meets buying numbers matching units and OEM 72 oil caps.

2) The track rats will lean more on the side of lightly or sometimes heavily modified cars. They will often do a lot of work them selves and have a performance shop step in for an engine tune (or rebuild) or even a trans gear change. These cars tend to always seem to be getting tinkered with and tuned. Some say this can become a real money pit but that is more based on the fact these cars are being driven hard and fast often so burning through tires and CV joints is no surprise. These cars are more often than not, not matching numbers and may even have a completely incorrect engine for the chassis year. If this is what you seek you may want to start with a nice 80's chassis and then take the mods in stride.

3) This is where I fall, and where I find most of my friends fall. We are the weekend warriors and some of us even daily drive our jalopy (something I wouldn't advise if you actually need to get places often). These cars are always a work in progress and some came to us running and others not. If the car is down for 3 months because its getting new suspension bushings thats ok, there is always something else to drive. We have all the PDF shop manuals and far to many Porsche posters (at the behest of SWMBO some may be taken down but we fight to keep them up in the house). Some people will have their chassis on jack stands for years perfecting their metal shaping, learning to weld on flairs and misusing bondo. Some of these cars are on the road and most are leaking at least 2 fluids of your choice. We do it because we love it and we would have it no other way, baking in the hot sun with non working AC and explaining to people why your trunk space is all taken up is what its all about.

Now you must ask your self where you sit. For some its a question of money (a topic that merits more discussion typically). There are those out there who can afford to have only Ferdinand him self fix their cars and then there are those of us who must do the labor our selves. If you keep an open mind at the project and are willing to learn how to do things you can restore just about anything out there. If you are antsy and want a driver in a short time, buy one, there are plenty of nice examples out there. If you sit in the middle buy a running car and tinker with the small things first, making it run better, putting on that sweet MOMO protipo you have always wanted and adding in a headlight relay.

The most important advice I will offer is to simply not be afraid. All to often I see people get afraid of fixing their own cars. As precious as these cars are to us parts are readily available and the worst you are going to do is break something you can replace. Reach out to local owners of which there are literally thousands on here. Most of us are happy to help look at cars and offer advice and a free ride in our respective machines.

Like anything else do your homework before you buy. Get to know whats out there, figure out what you want and buy a car. On that note on of the biggest make or break things I have seen is people who wont actually just buy a car. There are guys out there who will only settle for a 72 in Irish Green with some rare interior options, they may wait a lifetime before that hyper specific 911 comes up for sale. If you want a 911 pick a range and take the best example you can find in that range. Dont fixate on minutia, things can be changed!

Like anything else experience only comes with time. Sure there are some people who are good with their hands and may find metal work easier than other and there are those of us who are formally trained engineers and will have no problem cracking open an ECU and taking an oscilloscope to it. There are those of us who have a knack for welding and body work while other cylinder honing, there is a lifetime of knowledge out there about these cars.

Just remember any single 911 was designed by a whole team of engineers who had literally every tool at their disposal and most of these cars were at least early in their lives maintained by highly trained individuals. If you can so much as make a single repair consider your self successful, thats how I have always looked at it and its been a good time so far.

Its all fun, right?


If you have any questions feel free to PM me.

Regards
Dave

[gliding_serpent]

Dave is right on the money. I am a bit of all three, but mostly 2.

An alternate version is: racing, driving, wrenching, polishing. Pick one.
- If racing buy a built race car and get ready to wrench, or pay a lot of money. Who am I kidding, it will be expensive either way. Swear under your breath at spec miata guys when they talk about how little their upkeep costs are.
- if driving, get the best car you can afford, and enjoy the odd DIY project. Other times give it to a pro as you just want to enjoy it and they can do it faster. (most people are this)
- if wrenching, buy a project and get ready for the time sink. When it is finished and "perfect", get bored and immediately sell. Find a new hopeless project. What else would you do with your time?
- if polishing, get an enclosed trailer so you can roll it off and on for those concourse shows. Get ready to put out big money for that "perfect car" or "perfect restoration."


My view:
- you need a daily driver that is not the 911.
- if you want one, buy the best one you can afford, because repairs and parts are not cheap. A car that is 10,000$ more, and the condition warrants it, could save you 20,000$ easy. Ask me how I know. Trust no one, and see the car yourself before buying. Watch the inspection if you can. Get a 911 pro to do it.
- if you rebuild cars and engines as a hobby/career, get a project and save money on the lower purchase price.
- If you want a track car, it is cheaper to buy one that is finished. Budget for a rebuild. They are selling it for a reason.
- don't be afraid to get your hands dirty, even if you are new to it. Just know your limits and read read read. I repeat, know your limits... the guy that says that "anyone can rebuild the transmission or engine themselves" generally forgets to mention that they have a full garage setup with lifts, engine tables, etc, etc plus tons of experience rebuilding other engines. Or a ton of free time, and they forget to tell you all the things they screwed up to get there, or that they are a mechanical engineer by trade. Oops, did I leave that part out?
- All DIY folks are liars! Whenever I finish a project I go "that was easy"and I immediately forget the time, cost, blood, sweat, and tears it took to get there. It is human nature. That is why women keep having children. If they remembered fully how tough it was, we would all have only one kid.
- DIY if you enjoy it, not out of need. I do what I can, but if I MUST do a project, I resent it, as does my wife when I am away from her and the young kids. I do what I can when I can, which keeps it fun.
- Rolling restorations are better for the soul. Too many projects, or too long off the road and you can get bogged down and end up selling it unfinished. Unless you like that kind of thing. For me, it I have a toy I want to use it, and that is my priority. DIY lets me enjoy it when the snow is on the ground.
- DIY is only cheaper if you have all of the tools, and your time is not money, or you make less that your mechanic. I DIY to relax and because I like to learn, not to save. Between you and I, I also do it because I am a touch ocd and figure that only a 911 specialist will put more love in it than I will.

[RSBob]

Buy Wayne's book sold here, 101 Projects for Your 911. Step by step directions, pics and a difficulty guide. Start with the easy stuff, build confidence and go for something more difficult. People here are excellent resources.

[impactbumper]

set skills develop over time with repetition. The biggest challenge to a DIY'er is the basics such as what tools to use where, simple hand techniques, approaching an object from the right angle...etc. Happens over time, passion expedites things.

[irl]

Originally Posted by RSBob

Buy Wayne's book sold here, 101 Projects for Your 911. Step by step directions, pics and a difficulty guide. Start with the easy stuff, build confidence and go for something more difficult. People here are excellent resources.

Exactly, and soon nothing will appear to be too much.