Brakes grabbing occasionally??

[rickeolis]

Once in a while just as I take off from a stop, I feel the brakes grabbing hard which requires me to pull over and pump the brakes a few times until they let go.

One time the pedal went all the way to the floor and I had no brakes, but then it work several minutes later

Most of the time, this doesn't happen and the brakes work just fine... The fluid level is fine and there are no leaks.

Bad master cylinder or brake cylinders or ????
I am going to bleed the brakes tonight.

[vash]

you have got to fill us in on what happened. for safety sake, if it was me, i would start taking things apart. how old are the rubber lines?

[rickeolis]

Well, it's not my daily driver otherwise I wouldn't drive it like this!

I've only put a few miles on it since I got the newer engine in it, and this is what I'm finding.

The lines look old but intact, they will soon be replaced as well.

I'm sure SOMEONE has seen this issue before-

[einreb]

Rick,

The 'grabbing' brakes sound like a stuck caliper.

The 'to the floor' sounds like either a lot of air in the system or master cylinder.

If you are going to be doing brake work, I found that rebuilding all the calipers was a pretty easy job. There's lot of threads with tips and tricks for doing this. The kits are pretty cheap.

since the brakes are off, replace the lines if you want to... also an easy job.

rebuilding the mc makes things a little tougher, but i cant imagine its too bad. also, the new/rebuilt(?) mc's are pretty cheap, so you might just opt for replacing it all together.

I did not replace the mc (but i didnt have the same problems). I also used the manual method to bleed the brakes. i have since used the motive bleeder and found it to work like a charm.

the beauty of rebuilding the calipers, new lines, and the mc work is that after that... you're good to go! nothing else to fix

-bernie

[rickeolis]

Thanks guys, I just read this small ad on our host's parts side:

"Stainless Steel Brake Lines
Old, worn out original brake hoses are not only bad for performance, but are outright dangerous. Replace your original hoses with high-quality DOT-approved stainless steel braided lines. Old rubber brake hoses can look fine on the outside, but actually be swollen or clogged on the inside, leading to a situation where your caliper may not release properly when the pedal is released. Also common is bubbling and bursting of brake hoses after many years of service."

I'll start by replacing these lines, bleeding the system, and see where it stands after that I guess!

So BernieeinreB: I do most of my own work, but haven't rebuilt a caliper before, you say it's not too bad? I think it will be coming soon as well then-

[einreb]

the rebuilding of the calipers is really not that bad. note, i dont think that replacing the brake lines is going to address any of the problems that you're having. i suspect that the cheaper non stainless lines are just fine (and they can be inspected as opposed to the stainless ones). i went with the stainless cause they're purty.

press the brake pedal in a couple inches with a stick against the seat.
get the calipers off
pop the pistons out with compressed air (i used the 12v tire pump... watch your fingers!)
clean off the calipers as best you can
replace the seals
replace the brake lines if you're doing that
reinstall
bleed the brakes

the argument against manual bleeding of the brakes (pumping pedals) is that you take the mc past the point it usually goes and run the risk of breaking seals. thats why many opt for the power bleeder.

note this might be a good time for new rotors/pads if you're due. whats an extra $400 you saved more than that by rebuiling the brakes yourself!

[rickeolis]

That list works, thanks-

I have new pads and decent rotors, so for now, just doing these things should get me going!

-Rick-

[rickeolis]

Well, I just ordered a brand new set of lines from our host, Let's see how that affects the problem-

(Thanks for the suggestions guys)

[vash]

rick, calipers are easy. messy, but easy. i sacrificed an old bike tire pump. i cut the clasp off the end of the hose (you know the thing with the lever that allows the nozzle to clamp down on a schrader tube), and the leftover hose fits pretty damn good on the bleeder nut. i just used my hands to pinch off the open fitting and pumped. i jammed the wooden handle of my metal brittle brush in between and after a few pumps, POP! POP! both pistons pop out. the bike pump is less violent.

[rickeolis]

Vash- Yeah, from what you had said before, I figured I could put a dry sponge in between before pumping the air in! I'll be working on this on the weekend, thanks-

Is there anyone who has had this type of problem due to really old rubber hose lines????

[Todd Simpson]

I had a similar problem with my 2002, the left front brake dragged all the time due to old rubber lines.

This showed under braking as well, the left caliper would stay stuck, the pressure would then all go the right caliper. Braking was very interesting, hit the brakes, pull to the right, countersteer, then the left caliper would wake up, countersteer the other way to correct, then stop.

I replaced all the rubber lines and the problem went away. Had it continued I would have rebuilt the calipers next.

The 2002 has interesting brakes, 4 piston calipers in the front, with 2 seperate rubber lines to each caliper. Looks real exotic until you see the skinny little solid rotor.

[rickeolis]

Cool, that's what I was needing to hear. I'll rebuild the calipers in time, but was hoping not to have to rebuild all 4 right now... The new lines are on their way and I hope that solves my issues.

2 year old lines bad already??? That sucks-

[vash]

so rick, you going with the braided?

careful with the fittings. my 75's brakes were scary corroded at the fittings. i prayed before twisting every one. i bet this fixes it.

cliff

[Mike Bonkalski]

I would change out your M/C while you are at it. I had the same symptoms. Pedal would go to the floor and then be fine again. This happened twice. The last time while I was approaching train tracks witht the gates coming down! Finally, the pedal just went to the floor. I just installed new brake lines and M/C - everything is fine now.

The installation is pretty simple. The hardest parts were removing the hard lines and re-installing the feed lines from the resevoir.

[rickeolis]

Vash, yeah I went with the DOT rated braided lines! I also ordered as set of speed-bleeder valves.

Mike, I am going to order a new one ASAP. As good as insurance, don't need to mess around.