911 hose fittings for oil cooling - am I correct?

[gliding_serpent]

I am looking into a center mounted oil cooler to replace my fender cooler. The setrab 72 row cooler (STD 172) looks tempting.

What I am trying to clarify is the fittings. Porsche uses 30mm fittings for the send and return hard lines. From what I can gather, the Setrab STD-172 uses AN22 (edit: m22) fittings, requiring adapters from the soft lines to the cooler itself, thus making a bit of a restriction.

Can you get setrab std172 coolers that use 30mm fittings native (no adapter)? Looking on their site, I do not see mention of fitting size for these coolers. The elephant racing site is short on details.

Finally, I understand that 73 (Edit: 71) and earlier cars used 26mm fittings for the oil lines. IS that the same for their return and send hard lines up to the fender coolers? Or did they also use 30mm for those lines?

Thanks for any clarification. While you are at it, I would be interested in hearing about coolers/fittings used for impact bumper cars with an IROC bumper (not longhood RS bumper to minimize confusion) and center mounted oil cooler. Ideally I would like 30mm fittings all the way to my cooler and back... or am I stuck with AN22 with setrab? Is that really a big deal for a 270hp 3.4L engine that sees HPDE?

[9146GUY]

The short answer is no. I am a dealer for Setrab and all of their coolers come with the same size fittings. They sell adapters to fit whatever size oil line you have. Not the best scenario but that's what they do. You could adapt -12 to the Porsche hard lines and then make flexible oil lines with AN fittings that would go to the cooler.
Steve
Truechoice Motorsports

[gliding_serpent]

Thanks!

[BoxsterGT]

Setrab began the use of universal coolers with adapters to connect to many different oil systems. Now Earls and other suppliers offer this combination as well.

For the factory 30mm oil systems the cooler uses (2) M22 seal ring x M30 Male cone fittings (999.136.008.09)(This is the same as the engine case outlet fitting on later model 911 motors) and available from our host or Porsche dealers.

Also offered are fittings to accept AN-12 and AN-16 Aeroquip SS Hose, though keeping the full factory configuration is the best way in my opinion.



Some applications (ex: RS front bumper) have very limited space and require custom short hose ends and shorter adapter fittings. These are available through our Host, Setrab, Elephant and others including myself.

Early 911S models thru 71 use the 26mm hardlines & hose & fittings throughout, with only the oil tank supply (S) hose upgraded to 30mm. With the 72 911 model year Porsche upgraded everything to the 30mm size.

According to Setrab, their 172 cooler with its 22mm fittings is good for 600hp worth of cooling.

Hope this helps.

Len at Autosportengineering dot com

[911pcars]

Could that Setrab thread size be M22 and not –22AN? If so, there should be an adapter to go to –12AN hose. E.g.
https://www.pegasusautoracing.com/productdetails.asp?RecID=8840

Another option would be to modify the inlet/outlet ports with weld-on –12 Male adapters.
NYPPD Male AL 37 Degree AN Flare Weld Bung Fitting Turbo Oil Drain Cooler 12 AN - New York Professional Product Development

The Setrab guys might not officially agree, but welding adapters to oil coolers is often performed.

Sherwood
(no affiliation)

[JOHN21BLACK]

My mechanic advise was to use 16AN fittings. Race mechanic for Porsche/Audi

[mreid]

I used -16AN (I've never heard of -22AN) connected to the stock oil lines where the fender oil cooler used to connect.

Interestingly, I thought I would use all -16AN for the 904 with 3.0 engine from a 78 911. However, the oil outlet fitting on the case is 22mm which is almost exactly -12AN internal diameter. -12AN was much easier and cheaper to use and there are more oil coolers and external oil filters equipped with -12AN fittings. Your engine should have the same 22mm outlet.

[Sboxin]

Originally Posted by gliding_serpent

I am looking into a center mounted oil cooler to replace my fender cooler. The setrab 72 row cooler (STD 172) looks tempting.

What I am trying to clarify is the fittings. Porsche uses 30mm fittings for the send and return hard lines. From what I can gather, the Setrab STD-172 uses AN22 fittings, requiring adapters from the soft lines to the cooler itself, thus making a bit of a restriction.

Can you get setrab std172 coolers that use 30mm fittings native (no adapter)? Looking on their site, I do not see mention of fitting size for these coolers. The elephant racing site is short on details.

Finally, I understand that 73 (Edit: 71) and earlier cars used 26mm fittings for the oil lines. IS that the same for their return and send hard lines up to the fender coolers? Or did they also use 30mm for those lines?

Thanks for any clarification. While you are at it, I would be interested in hearing about coolers/fittings used for impact bumper cars with an IROC bumper (not longhood RS bumper to minimize confusion) and center mounted oil cooler. Ideally I would like 30mm fittings all the way to my cooler and back... or am I stuck with AN22 with setrab? Is that really a big deal for a 270hp 3.4L engine that sees HPDE?

Are you still using the engine mounted oil cooler? Our race built 3.2L ran cool here in the warm desert with the front and engine coolers. But, at 270 HP you are putting out some extra heat that sure could use some help from the larger front mounted cooler.

Also, why not keep the fender cooler and add the front cooler? It's just plumbing and hoses.

I think - - IMHO of course - - that -12 will do just fine for fittings and hoses.
We now have a fire breathing 3.8L and it takes a lot of coolers and hoses - looks like spaghetti behind the front fascia/bumper . . .

Regards,

[gliding_serpent]

Originally Posted by mreid

I used -16AN (I've never heard of -22AN) connected to the stock oil lines where the fender oil cooler used to connect.

Interestingly, I thought I would use all -16AN for the 904 with 3.0 engine from a 78 911. However, the oil outlet fitting on the case is 22mm which is almost exactly -12AN internal diameter. -12AN was much easier and cheaper to use and there are more oil coolers and external oil filters equipped with -12AN fittings. Your engine should have the same 22mm outlet.

Sorry for the confusion. I meant to confirm that all setrab oil coolers run m22 fittings (not an22). Thus I would need m22 to m30 adapters to attach a setrab cooler to m30 braded lines sold by folks like elephant racing. I understand that those m30 lines would fit (without adapters) to the hard send and return oil lines that run along the passenger side of the car.

[mreid]

Yes, I used 30mm to -16AN hose ends sold by BAT on my 1974 911 to connect the front cooler lines directly to the front wheel well oil cooler lines. Worked like a charm. Also, Earls makes an oil cooler with -16mm fittings that is a perfect fit for the front.

[gliding_serpent]

Originally Posted by Sboxin

Are you still using the engine mounted oil cooler? Our race built 3.2L ran cool here in the warm desert with the front and engine coolers. But, at 270 HP you are putting out some extra heat that sure could use some help from the larger front mounted cooler.

Also, why not keep the fender cooler and add the front cooler? It's just plumbing and hoses.

I think - - IMHO of course - - that -12 will do just fine for fittings and hoses.
We now have a fire breathing 3.8L and it takes a lot of coolers and hoses - looks like spaghetti behind the front fascia/bumper . . .

Regards,

Full disclosure: I posted this thread as I saw a setrab STD172 with what looked like elephant lines on ebay. He confirmed it was an elephant kit, but without the fittings or mounting hardware (not sure why, other than he wants to reuse them). His car was a 69.

Thus my questions on 71 and earlier fitting sizes, as i wanted to be sure I would be getting m30 lines. I called elephant, and they confirmed that they only sell m30 lines... and provide adapters as needed. The seller was unsure of the fitting sizes, but told me that the hoses were 30mm OD, and about 28mm ID when he measured.

I understood that Setrab only made coolers with M22 fittings, but searches here had folks talking of larger fittings for setrab, and them possibly offering multiple models for different fitting sizes. This "misinformation" led me to confirm that there was not a better option from setrab, and that all were m22. I wanted to be sure I was not buying a suboptimal cooler due to smaller fittings. With pre 71 cars using m26, I wanted to be sure that is not what I was buying given that he had a 69.

Part of me always wonders why someone would sell when they were claimed "6 months old." The seller said it was to restore a car to original. Maybe so, as long hood values are higher when original. The more skeptical part of me thought "maybe he is selling it due to having fittings that were sub-optimal... that pelican thread did talk about setrab coolers with larger fittings...". Eventually I opted to post the question to folks here.

In regards to cooling, I am deleting my brass wheel well cooler. I don't think I will need it, and I don't want the weight. I have a new fiberglass bumper with the center mounted cooler, so I want to make it functional, and I really think two coolers will be overkill, and an unfilled IROC bumper is a sin in my mind. I would rather one very efficient center cooler that is "overbuilt" for my needs.

Heck, my car only barely got above the first line (ignoring the thick one) on the temp gauge at the track... and that was before I realized that my return oil line was pancaked to the point that I would be surprised if more than a trickle of oil was getting to the front cooler. Mind you, I was probably running maybe 240-250hp this year, and I did not go over 6K rpm (on track) as the engine was fresh. It was also around 30oC for temp on the two HPDE days I ran.

Long story short, I expect 270hp in the spring, and I will shift at 6500rpm, and I need to design for temps up to 40oC (although 30-35 will be more realistic to what we see in Atlantic canada on a typical very "hot" day). I ended up getting the setrab std172 cooler, and the hoses, which should be a good savings from buying new as long as they are as declared (6 mths old, professionally cleaned and tested, undamaged cooler and lines).

Thanks for the help folks, this educated me quite a bit on fittings.

[gliding_serpent]

Hmmm.... will see if I can get some m30 to m22 adapters cheap at a local auto parts store. Probably not... if at all.

My next issue is mounting. The elephant side mount does not seem feasible for IROC bumpers with the lower cooler. Time to research. Most seem to attach the lower end of the cooler to the AC bar.

[BoxsterGT]

Photo in post #4 above shows the exact adapter you speak of - M22 seal ring x M30 Male Cone.

Len

[KNS]

Shameless plug - I'm selling these over in the parts section of the classifieds: New, uninstalled AN-12 to Porsche fittings. AN-12 to 200,210 series hose.

[dfhtrhjn]

I have a '77 with an IROC bumper and a Setrab center oil cooler. I used the Setrab with AN-12 fittings and bought adapters to convert to the Porsche fittings on the engine.

Here's the oil cooler I have, it fits perfectly in the IROC bumper. I used a 45 degree hose end fitting for the top and a 90 degree hose end for the bottom.

Front Center Mount Oil Cooler - 911 RS - 914 GT By Patrick Motorsports Porsche & Mid Engine Performance Specialists

AN-12 Hose End - 45 Degree By Patrick Motorsports Porsche & Mid Engine Performance Specialists

AN-12 Hose End - 90 Degree By Patrick Motorsports Porsche & Mid Engine Performance Specialists

It was easiest for me to use AN-12 all the way to the engine and just buy a couple adapters for the dry sump and the case.

[gliding_serpent]

So wait... Are setrab coolers m22 or an12?

I thought it was m22. Edit, it is m22.

[safe]

Well, yes Setrab has a "Porsche cooler" with M30 fitting. But you need to buy them bulk from Setrab.
My supplier made m30 fittings that he welds to the coolers to get around the above.

[BoxsterGT]

For those who wish to use a less costly AN-12 front cooler, I have "Direct-Connect" oil hose fittings that allow a direct connection from the M30 hardlines in the front fenderwell to the front cooler as shown.................



On the left is the M30 and on the right is the AN-12.

This eliminates the costly AN Hose, AN fittings and AN to Metric adapters needed to change over from M30 to AN and back to M30. This hose is available in any length up to 10ft, and is much more cost effective overall.







Hope this helps.

Len at Autosportengineering dot com

[gliding_serpent]

Originally Posted by safe

Well, yes Setrab has a "Porsche cooler" with M30 fitting. But you need to buy them bulk from Setrab.
My supplier made m30 fittings that he welds to the coolers to get around the above.

Interesting. That would save the cost on a couple of m30 to m22 fittings... Which is 70-80$. That being said, m22 fittings are already in the loop on the engine side of things, so i think a m30 cooler, although better, might not be worth the hassle.

Pretty sure my setrab std172 will have the m22, but no big deal. Will verify when i get it.

[Tremelune]

After spending $300 on a pair of oil lines from Elephant, I decided that kind of sucked, and then lost myself down a rabbit hole of AN adapter research. I came away more confused than I started.

How are you guys rolling your own lines? I plan on replacing my nose cooler with a wheel well cooler, and I was hoping to buy a few meters of hose, a few fittings, and a crimp tool, and make any custom line needed...