Targa real window seal

[47silver]

i used to wrestle but this seal got the better of me 6 hours of wasted time.

I knew that there has to be a better way the factory would not have wasted so much time with this or had to have 4 people doing it.
So after searching this site, google, germany, the moon, etc. and I found a post from kevin stewart. Kevin said he puts the seal into the flange on the car and then installs the glass using a rope to pull away the rubber and pushing the window into the seal.
that makes tremendous sense to me and i was thinking that it has to be the way it is done in the factory.
questions:
Would this be the permanent install?
should i put sealant in the seal to window channel?
should i put the chrome on the seal?
Should i put sealant on the seal to the body
i will try this tonight or tomorrow.

[universeman]

Looking forward to this thread...this is on my future list

Should be permanent install but I don't think you can install the aluminum trim with the glass in the car, so I think the trim needs to go on before the glass goes in.

Not sure about sealant, I think it's dry like the windshield.

[47silver]

always hard to take pictures when doing work i will try on this one as it is one of (in my opinion) hardest things to do, and i installed new timing chains on a engine still in the car.

[Dr. Dynamics]

Just in case I use a little Black Magic or whats allready absorbed by the tire sponge, so the rubber by its self finds it seat on the metal when you pull the string. At least works for me on the 951 side window and on VW beetles

[47silver]

i picked up some glycerine at the drugstore, very slippery liquicd

[jrsully]

Many threads on this install here (one very popular using a "come long" draped over the rear Targa glass that is cinched down/tightend as you go along) use dishwashing soap/Dawn as a lube, very popular choice. Search here and you'll find everything you need on the subject

[47silver]

thanks
i read most of the posts but none explain how to hold the seal to the glass other than taping which does not look like how it should be done.
i could not find any mention of adhesive inside the seal to mate with the window glass.
I did find a coating of some type of sealant on the window that i removed with a razor blade, and a sponge with comet cleaner (that worked nicely by the way removing the remaining residue).
last night i tried setting the seal into the car without the window and that was not optimal.
so my main question if answered would solve my problem. What type of adhesive do they put inside the seal to keep the seal on the window before you install it?
i have a porsche seal so it should be the best and it will not stay on.
I would think that a sealant or adhesive has to be rubber based to allow some movement and i just dont want to dump some 3M product into the seal and not only it not work but have a super mess.
would it be a butyl rubber compound like they use on the newer car windows?

[Mark Salvetti]

I expect this job is in my future. Did you find this thread: Quick Targa window install trick

It looks like the tape is only used to get the seal on the glass all the way around. Then you can remove the tape and the seal tension will hold it in place. I don't think you want to use a sealant.

Mark

[47silver]

i will try anything.

[47silver]

took about 3 hours doing this alone, but I managed to tape the seal to the window.
Some suggestions:
Dont use any lube in fact i cleaned thd window and seal with alcohol so it was bone dry.
I used the metal type tape rather than duct tape as that is what i had handy.
Do the bottom portion of the seal with the window upside down.
Then you can flip the glass over and do the front/top.
i did it about 5 inches at a time, have some tape cut and you must be patient.

if you see the photo the tape is perpendicular to the seal, i think if i ever do this again i will run the tape length wise in parallel with the seal and window on the outside edges.
After I install the defrost wires i will tape the insicde of the seal to the window along the edge in parallel with the seal. I'll post pictures.
For the chrome trim do not forget the special end pieces:
1: 901-565-561-40 Bright aluminum trim, left end piece for rear. Fits 1968-1973 (Targa). 90156556140 1 of these
2: 901-565-562-40 Right Side Aluminum Trim End Piece Fits 1968-1973 (Targa). 90156556240 1 of these
3: Targa seal = 911-545-051-41-OEM
4: targa chrome strips: 901-565-555-40 Bright aluminum trim, left rear. Fits 1968-1973 (Targa). 90156555540 1 of these
5: 901-565-556-40 Bright aluminum trim, right rear window. Fits 1968-1973 (Targa). 90156555640 1 of these
6: center trim piece: 644-541-921-06 Window Trim Connecting Piece for 356B T6, 356C, and 911/912 64454192106 1 of these
7: rubber gasket for targa bar to window seal: Glass Rubber Seal - Genuine Porsche
G90156593041
8: seals/gaskets under the chrome strips that attach to the body?
9: nylon washers under the targa bar?
10: Glycerine : find it at the drugstore.

[47silver]

i noticed that i broke an electical connection for the defroster..
next window use a thin piece of plastic or metal to bend over the tab to protect it.
posted a separate thread on how to fix,,

[47silver]

i used this silver epoxy to hold on the tabs.

I soldered a thin piece of copper onthe tab to make them a bit longer,, i used some #12 wire and pounded it thin and that worked great
i put the tabs on with this epoxy and clamped (gently) for a day.
was able to get the seal on without breaking.
The epoxy is about 15 dollars. and can easily do 3 tabs.

[47silver]

rope installation.
i ended us using the rounded ends of two paint brushes one opened the channel the other to push in the rope. With a little spray the rope went in nicely


2 of us put the glass on to the car.
i installed it myself and it took about an hour.
i used kevin's tie down method and it did not need to be too tight.

[47silver]

rope installation.
i ended us using the rounded ends of two paint brushes one opened the channel the other to push in the rope. With a little spray the rope went in nicely

[47silver]

Targa rear window Seal: I just finished installing the targa window. It was the hardest job I ever did on a car and that includes putting in timing chains while the motor was in the car. I gained a lot of experience as I had to put the window in and out 5 times and found out what I did wrong each time:
1. First time I forgot the chrome (the car was re-painted) and I was not thinking that the chrome went under the bar,
2. The second time the window was not in the proper groove so it will not fit right in the front lower part or at the back.
3. The third time the chrome was too far forward and you cannot move the chrome while the window is installed without destroying it.
4. Forth time the back part of the seal was not sufficiently in the body of the car and it would not pull into place, looking closely I found that some of the wires were in the wrong groove and the rubber needed cut further.
5. the 5th time was a success.

Tools:
1. Needed to install the seal to the window and to the car:
a. HF Nylon Pry bar installer item#69668
b. HF Plastic spreaders item#69563
2. Needed to install the chrome to the seal:
a. Dawn soap and spray bottle.
3. Needed to install the rope into the seal:
a. I used Princeton paint paint brushes for art, #8 and #12 the round ends work nicely to expand the seal and to push in the rope.
4. Tape to keep the seal in place:
a. I used Shurtape DC-181. Duct tape is too hard to remove when you want and masking tape won’t hold.
5. Weatherstrip cleaner:
a. I used the napa brand to clean the seal.
6. Bottle of isopropyl alcohol.
7. Glycerine (use sparingly for the chrome if it is stubborn.
8. Side cutters.
9. Needle nose pliers.
10. Masking tape.
11. Razor blades/knife
12. 2”x4”x4’ and and a 6” x6” x 2” for removing the window.
13. 2-Window suction devices: hf#92825
14. Fishing line.
15. 3/8” rope.
16. 8’ 2”x4”
17. Ratcheting tie down.
Process:
1. On the car, put masking tape around the edge of the seal a few layers deep and about a foot down to protect the paint.
2. Disconnect the defroster wires
a. The defroster wire harness connect in the engine compartment.
b. The connector if you look closely comes apart with the tabs.
c. Do a drawing of the connector showing wire locations.
d. Use some glycerine for lubricant or the dawn spray and pry the connector apart.
e. Put the connector into a plastic bag labeled CONNECTOR.
f. Disconnect the brown ground wire.
3. Remove the rear interior pieces that would impede access. My car was bare so I cannot assist with this.
4. Remove the targa bar: 15 screws on the front and 4-10 mm underneath. Careful they can break.
5. Remove the targa bar, do not lose the nylon spacers.
6. Spray the dawn mixture around the inside of the seam.
7. Pull out the grommet and wires on the wiring harness and tape to inside of the window so they do not dangle.
a. Put the grommet and wiring sleeves into the plastic bag.
8. Spray the chrome piece with dawn
9. Life the forward edge of the chrome and put the fishing line between the chrome and the rubber seal, slowly pull backwards and the chrome will come up. Put the edge connectors into the plastic bag note orientation. The front ones have a distinct angle
10. Inside the car, using the 6x6 as fulcrum I put the 2 x 4 under the left back corner edge on the rubber seam and slowly pried up, then to the other side back and forth until the window lifted.. It did not take a lot of pressure.
11. Using the suction clamps or better yet with a friend, lift the window from the car…I was able to do it alone with the cups but it is awkward and you hope the suction cups work.
12. Set the window onto the table flip it upside down so that the seal is on top.
13. Before removing the old seal mark the locations of the defroster wire/tabs on the old seal.
14. Remove the seal.
15. Clean the new seal with the weather strip cleaner.
16. Clean the window with alcohol.
17. Using the old seal as a template cut the new seal for the defroster tabs and wires. (if you do not do this you will break the tabs and the window will not set properly.
18. Using the old seal as template cut holes for your 3 wires remember the holes will be under the inner groove where the wires run. I cut one hole, some cut 3, I am not sure of the proper method.
19. Take the new cleaned and cut seal and fish the wires through the hole(s).
20. Then start at one of the front corners installing the seal..
21. Make sure the window is in the outside track of the seal. IMPORTANT, make sure that the window is on the outside track of the seal. Again make sure that the window is on the outside track of the seal.
22. Push the seal on to the window edge, about 4 inches and tape it. Start the tape on the inside of the window and bring the tape over the seal to the outside of the window then it will keep the seal in the proper groove.
23. Move to the other front corner and do the same.
24. Working to the back of the window, move in 4 inch increments, and tape the seal to the window.
25. As you approach the rounded corners it is imperative that the seal is in the outside groove so that it will be at the proper slope for the window channel . It should look like a straight line from the window to the outer edge of the seal. Like a coupe roof line. On the rounded corners I taped from the outside over the seal to the inside to keep it at the correct angle. Do that across the back and around the next rounded corner. As you will want to back edge of the seal to fall into place in the car.
26. As you move over the defroster tabs/wires make sure that they are not hung up on the grooved edge and that the wires lay in the inner groove. You may have to cut out some more rubber.
27. After you go completely around the window, flip it over,, be careful not to disturb the seal.
28. Examine how the window goes into the seal and verify that it is on the outside groove, use your tools to adjust if necessary.
29. At the front of the window, make sure that the window is in the groove and work your way around the window taping as you go, it helps to have an assistant doing the taping but it is doable alone.
30. Check on the wiring to make sure that it is in the inner groove and not under the window.
31. Get the chrome pieces. Measure 55 mm from the front lip and that is where the edge of the chrome has to start. If not then the targa bar will hit the chrome.
32. You will have to remove some of the tape and spray the seal with some dawn, press in the chrome using only you hands, you will feel it snap and get snug
33. Retape over the chrome, slowly work your way to the rear of the window.
34. Slide on the connector.
35. Start the other side at least 55 mm from the front of the rubber. And work back untaping and retaping. Do not disturb the seal on the window.
36. Get the rope, leave about a foot and start in the middle, use the ends of the rounded paint brushes to open the seal and slip in the rope, as you move across the seal un-tape and re-tape as you go. If you don’t the seal will fall off. I used the #12 brush ahead of the #8 and pushed the rope in with the #8. Works nice. May need a bit of dawn but not much.
37. As you get to the lower corner, flip over the window outside facing down.
38. Work your way around the window with the rope and brushes, be gentle as you do not want to push off the seal about half way to the rounded end you can put a loop in (I tried it both ways and preferred not having a loop.
39. Move around the window and to the front, cross over the one end about 6 inches.
40. Flip the window over.
41. Verify that:
a. The chrome is in the groove.
b. The window is in the outer groove.
c. The rope is in the grove.
cont'd

[47silver]

42. Using the suction cups lift the glass from the center (if alone) if you have a helper then use the cups on the sides to lift the window and move it to the car.
43. Set the window on the car.
44. Put the suction cups on the window about a foot from the top and lift the front of the window so that the back of the window is at a slight angle so that the seal is about where it would lie.
45. Lower the window and let the lip rest on the top of the targa bar.
46. Using one of the tools, inspect (from inside the car), the window and seal to make sure that the window is resting in the outer groove, if you do not do this the window will NOT set properly.
47. If you are confident that the window and seal is set properly then center the window.
48. Make sure that the back of the seal is in place. It should be almost in place, if you can see a couple of the sealing splines then I would venture to guess that the window is NOT in the proper groove, use your tools to make sure it is in the proper grove and the seal will sink into the body of the car.
49. Lower the front of the window and make sure that the seal edge is in the grove at the corner. If the seal edge is not in the groove then again the window is probably not in the outside groove it is is in the outside groove the seal the the lowest part of the targa bar will almost be flush with the bar.
50. Check the chrome to make sure it is still in the groove.
51. Check the chrome at the back, it should be less then 1 cm apart.
52. Check around the window and verify that the seal is resting on the chrome or car flat not curled under.
53. Slide the 2/4/8 under the car
54. Put the tie down over the window and connect it to the board at the furthest ends.
55. Use some soft cloth to put between the body and strap as it may hit the body. A 2x4 x 12 would probably be better but used a 2 x4x8
56. Tighten the tie down, until you see the rubber seal compressed slightly on to the chrome strip. Easy does it not much is required
57. Inside the car, starting at the top of the seal slowly remove the tape at the front of the seal. Leave the back and sides tape on for now.
58. Then use your angled nylon tool to pull the seal over the top lip. Spray a bit of dawn on it if it is recalcitrant.
59. Work around to the edge.
60. Then do the other side to the bottom.
61. Then come back and do the other side to the bottom.
62. STOP:
a. Inspect the window and make sure it is in the outside groove completely around the entire seal. If it is not in the proper groove you may have to start all over.
b. Make sure that the chrome strip is in flush with the seal.
c. Make sure that the rear of the seal is in the body off the car.
d. Make sure the bottlom lip of the seal is on the body of chrome. \
e. Make sure that the window is centered.
63. Starting from the top slowly pull the rope out from one of the sides to the corner.
64. Do the other side.
65. Pull the tape off of the seal. Pull it from the inside so that you do not pull the seal off of the window.
66. If you put in loops before the rounded part of the window, pull the loop that moves front to back and watch it go over the edge to the front of the seal at the corner.
67. STOP:
a. Inspect the outside of the seal to make sure it is almost flush with the targa bar at the base. If not then your window is probably not in the proper channel. Use your tools to get the window into place this includes the top lip.
68. If you did not put in rope loops then use your tools to work the rope around the corner and go about half way.
69. Do the other side to halfway
70. As others have stated, every few inches go out and with the flat of your hand push the window forward.
71. Now on either side slowly pull out the rope, watch the seal go over the lip, it is pretty cool actually.
72. About every 6 inches get out and slap the window towards the front of the car.
73. Pull one of the ropes to the center. I did not use any loops the last time I did it and worked fine.
74. Use the other rope and pull it to the center being careful with the defroster wires.
75. Check that the window is in the outer groove around the entire window if not you may be able to apply some upward pressure on the window and using one of your tools persuade the window into the groove. DO NOT raise it too much or you will pull out the seal from the lip.
76. If you pull out the front seal from the lip you can usually use your tools to get to the seal back into position.
77. Check the chrome is still in place. If the chrome is not in place, you will have to pull out the window.
a. If you have to pull out the window use the 2 x 4 and do not remove it from the car before you re-tape the seal into place onto the window.
78. Using one of the tools, and some spray slide the top lip over the targa bar, it should contact thte bar, if it does not contact the bar completely around then something is amiss. There should not be any gaps except at the very bottom perhaps.
79. Slide on the forward edge chrome pieces, they are angled so that the bottom is forward of the top.
80. If ever thing fit nicely have someone help you with the targa bar (open the doors so you do not catch an edge).
81. If the bar fits screw it in place, I think you should start with the 15 screws starting from the top?
82. Use anti-seize on the 10mm nuts.
83. Jump for joy. Have a party, drink 2 gin and tonics and salute the targa gods.
84.

[porschenut]

Originally Posted by 47silver

84.

You forgot something. Let me help:

84. Sell the targa and never deal with this again.

[47silver]

nothing beats a targa on a warm day or night with the roof off.
no use owning a sports car if it has a roof...unless you are on the track.

[CosmosMoon]

Sorry to raise an old thread, but this is one of the best, most detailed explanations out there on how to get these windows in. Thanks so much to 47silver for the work in laying it out so completely. All it's missing is some pictures...

I'm about to embark on the process myself as part of a cab -> targa conversion, so I don't even know exactly what the end result is supposed to look like! Because of that, and because I'm a believer in the "you have to break some eggs to make an omelet" way of doing things, I got both the cheapest seal I could find, as well as a Porsche-genuine seal, then proceeded to cut the cheap seal into pieces so I could do some test-fitting and really get a look into the black-box that is the rear targa seal. This has been SUPER helpful, and I can now really understand what's going on here. I thought anyone coming across this thread any time in the future would find it helpful to see some cross-sections, so here you go...

This is the part of the seal that goes between the body and glass, as you can tell by the presence of the channel for the trim piece(s)


This is the part of the seal where the targa-bar is


Lastly, here's me playing with fitting the glass onto a targa bar using just a few pieces of seal to get a sense of how it fits together, how tight it is, and how much of a PITA it is to work with


Hope someone finds these helpful.

[RDM]

While driving the Targa is one of my happy memories, installing the rear window was not. Not many pictures, but here is the post where I did mine.