964 Shell VIN mismatch?

[RX-78 Gundam]

This 964 shell that I was looking at last year is still for sale (I haven't had a chance to check it out in person). The owner sent me photos of it as well as a copy of the only paperwork he has on it (no title).

Something seems fishy to me as the VIN in the photo does not match the VIN on the paperwork.

The owner also said that I could call the shop he used to have it worked on "Air Cooled Engines in Sonoma". From what I have read on the forums, this seems to be associated with the Krieger person.

The previous owner on the registration paperwork also pulls up on a search of the forums as one of the many creditors for the defunct Motor Meister.

Now these would all be red flags and indicate that I should walk away from this, but I just wanted to ensure I'm not misinterpreting anything here.

Does anyone has any insight into this?

[Flat6pac]

The 3 Zs just hold space. You see it on imported euro cars in the title.
Bruce

[RX-78 Gundam]

So does that mean the US car's VIN plate was swapped for a Euro car VIN?

[911ducktail]

am I reading the two vins correctly?

WP0ZZZ95ZMS411290

Validation error
You must correct the following error(s) before proceeding:•Vin not valid. No vehicle found

Please select new vehicle:

The data that was transferred from the Porsche vehicle master data is incorrect. The PIWIS information system contains information about Porsche standard-production vehicles from model year 1984 onwards.

WP0AB2961MS411290

Vehicle-Ident.-Number (VIN) WP0AB2961MS411290
Sales Type 964330
Model Year 1991
Block Flag
Blocking Date
Engine Type M64/01
engine number 62M08528
Gearbox Type G5003
transmission serial number 2M01803
Tire Code GDRI
General information
Invoice Date 1 1991-02-18
Invoice Date 2 1991-02-08
Number of "Z" Orders 0
Country Equipment C02 USA
Trading Partner 4300010
Commission Number 022738

has an open recall on it too :lol:

AT07 Universal joint 1, 2, 3, 4 0 no

[RX-78 Gundam]

Thanks for posting that info you found. I read the first vin like that too but could not find anything on it.

[911ducktail]

thats from Porsches internal PIWIS system. it definitely wont pull info on grey market VINs - unfortunately I dont think theres a different error that it spits out when its a 'good' ZZZ vin versus an invalid ZZZ vin

this isnt that black and tan car in texas thats been for sale forever without the drivetrain in it by chance is it?

[RX-78 Gundam]

The owner sent me a couple of more photos of the VIN. Not sure why the one in the frunk would be different?

[FrenchToast]

Double post. Please delete.

[FrenchToast]

Hmm. Well, the one in the trunk is a chassis number.

The 4th, 5th, 6th digits are reserved for some markets. In some European countries, those digits remain ZZZ for the VIN. This is not the case for a North American market car.

However, AFAIK all the other digits should match. So it's confusing as to why digits 8th and 9th do not match. That may have been some sort of market change.

But, the sequential numbers match, which is a good sign.

To make things more confusing, Porsche AG did themselves reVIN some cars in this era. I don't know if the chassis number would have gotten re-stamped to reflect it. I also don't know if the change these cars carried reflects the differences you have.

Porsche proper reVINned cars carry an option code signifiying such. The code is 718 (or M718) and would appear on the build sticker. This reVIN process has been known to affect some early 964s.

[RX-78 Gundam]

FrenchToast - Thank you for explaining that.

Does anybody have any info on this VIN or happen to have heard/seen this car? It was posted for sale on CL last summer in the Seattle area.

[RX-78 Gundam]

FrenchToast - Thank you for clarifying.

Does anybody have any info on this VIN or happen to have heard/seen this car? It was posted for sale on CL last summer in the Seattle area.

[djpateman]

The FRUNK number is ALWAYS ZZZ & Z. Always and forever.
The full VIN for non ROW markets is not decided until after the FRUNK stamping is done.
They can only stamp what they know at the time, and the placetaker ZZZ is put in, the last Z is the check digit and so it has to be a Z as well.

[RX-78 Gundam]

djpateman - Appreciate the explanation. I definitely jumped to conclusions with this one.