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Another Retro Backdate Thread
Part 1.
So, I decided that I needed a backdated 911 in my life. Why? Back in the 90s, I drove a 1971 2.2T as a daily driver for several years. After that, I drove a 1989 3.2 coupe for several more years. Both were my only car at the time, both wore snow tires 6 months of the year, and both had a roof rack for bikes and snowboards. Both were tracked at PCA DE events, though I was never sure how the ’71 passed tech (more on that later). Neither had what you’d call “working a/c” – the vent windows on the ’71 cooled off humans better than the factory spec a/c on the ’89. The ’71 was the scary sweetheart. Everybody loved that car from a distance. But get a little closer and that car started to get scary, with fuel and exhaust leaks, big blue flames and backfires from the exhaust, occasional carb fires, failing fuel pumps, leaky fuel tank, a starter solenoid that only failed when I really needed it… plus growing rust holes in several spots of the floor, bumpers, windshield pillars, and accumulated body damage from life on the mean streets of SF, Philly, NYC, and ultimately Denver. Did I mention leaks? That car needed every seal and wire replaced… By the way, this car was named “Lucy”, as in “Lucy, you have some explaining to do!” The ’89 was in great shape and was a real car in almost every way. Amazing torque for a sports car, never a squeak or rattle. So competent, it felt downright indestructible, and I drove it relentlessly. But it missed the fun factor of the earlier longhood car. The throttle response felt heavy and slow, the gearing was way too tall for my tastes, and the heavy steering didn’t encourage me to throw the car at the twisties. Love vs. Hate: 1971 911T Coupe Love: Fun! Styling, narrow body, chrome, throttle response, sound. Feels light and quick. Hate: Rust problems, fiddly carbs, poor shift, leaks and smells (outside air, gas fumes, hot oil, burning oil, exhaust, rain, freezing rain, you get the picture). 1989 3.2 Carrera Coupe Love: Solid! Bulletproof durability, torque, power, speed. Drive anywhere, anytime. Hate: Styling (whale tail, impact bumpers), poor shift, tall gearing, feels slow on the street, even though it isn’t Unfortunately, the newer 911s haven’t done much for me. The 993s are "too good", if that's really a thing – they’re so competent, smooth and quiet that the thrill isn’t there for me. I have nothing against the water-cooled generation of 911s, they’re just a bigger, heavier car than I want to drive. So the goal of this project is take the things I loved about each of my departed 911s, address the shortcomings if I can, and have a very fun daily driver with a good mix of old school style, 4 seasons practicality, quality engineering and build, and a dash of fun/sport purpose. Oh, and I have lots of ideas but no skills or patience. And a limited budget. Going to need a good partner for this project. Stay tuned for part 2: the donor car, the builder, and the plan. Photos: in memoriam... the 1971 and the 1989 that led me to this. [/SIZE][/FONT]http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1459104326.jpg http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1459104337.jpg |
Sounds like the start to a really good thread!
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I considered the same but in the end decided on a decent 912 to tinker with until it suits me (not totally certain of where that will lead). My main reason was the interior: I LOVE the cabin of long hoods. Every time I considered back dating my SC I'd stop when I remembered it would still look the same on the inside, not that that is a bad thing, but the style matched inside and out so I left it as it was...sold it...and now own a 68 912.
I look forward to following your project, as I do all the back dates, and good luck to you in achieving your dream car :) |
Sounds like a fantastic idea. It would be really neat to make it a narrow body and no-sunroof car like your '71. I have lots of ideas, be sure to hit me up before you start.
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Neat. I know someone that has a very similar story. Hope your car turns out better...
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Part 2:
Day 2. The builder, the donor car, and the plan
At the recommendation of Dave Bouzaglou at TRE, I connected with Marc Zurlinden at Zurlinden LLC to build the car. Marc has done a number of very interesting and high quality builds, from backdates to lightweight sports-purpose to track specials. We immediately got along, and I liked his ideas and approach. With Marc’s help, we acquired the donor car in February 2015. It’s a 1984 coupe. The engine and trans were solid, despite 140K miles on the clock. The paint had been damaged in a garage fire. Interior was swampy. The suspension was floppy. The body had a little rust, mostly superficial. Perfect! Working with Mark, we came up with the plan following plan: Suspension and brakes. Basically, rebuild stock Carrera setup with a few improvements. • Lower ride height • Raised spindles • Rebuild calipers • Replace wear items (bearings, bushings, balljoints, shocks) • New stiffer torsion bars (22/29mm) and new tie rods. Wheels and tires. • Repro/alloy 16” “steelies” , 7” and 8”. • Long stud hubs • BFG G-Force Sport Comp 2, 205s front, 225s rear. Body. Backdated to longhood style. Keep as much metal as practical. Very clean design, silver/chrome accents. • Strip the car to factory E-coat. Full repaint, Glasurit Albert Blue, single stage – like my old ’71. • Add steel fender extensions to front quarter panels, steel longhood latch panel. Leave stock Carrera flares. Remove Carrera rocker trim • Get used steel longhood and rear decklid. Chrome/brushed silver grills. No tail. • FG “S” style front bumper and RS style rear bumper from TRE. No bumper or body decos. • H4 Euro-style headlamps with polished trim. Silver trimmed tail lamps and turn signals. • New windshield. Removing tint from side windows. • Refinish window/door trim in brushed silver. ’73 NOS “flag”-style side mirrors on both sides. No badges or emblems. • Resealing everything – body seals, door felts, window rubbers. Interior. Backdate to long hood style using (almost) all new parts. • Delete center consoles. • New seats, “S” style from D’Eser with corduroy inserts and perforated leather bolsters. • RS-style perlon carpets + cocomats. RS-style door cards and handles • New headliner • Raid/Racemark steering wheel, ~390 mm, with leather crest horn button. Backdate turn signal and wiper stalk switches • Repro factory-style shift knob. • Recovered dash. • Restored/backdated gauges to RS style with 10K rpm tach and LED lighting. • Backdated dash fascia. • New radio and speakers (I’m not nostalgic for 70s radios). New sun visors. New seat belts, front and rear. A/C. Not a backdate, an update. • All new system from Griffiths/Kuehl, optimized for my Colorado climate. • “Duehl” condenser setup, upgraded evaporator/blower/compressor/barrier hoses with r134 with new center vent. • A/C controls relocated to ashtray face. Engine and tranny. Leave pretty stock. • Engine runs well as is – leaky and messy, but with good compression. • Soda blast and reseal engine • Wevo shifter and shift linkage coupler. • New lightweight clutch and flywheel from Patrick Motorsports. • Replacement gas tank, new fuel pump, filler neck and fuel lines. • Internally rechambered stock exhaust with stock single outlet and drilled airbox for a little more sport sound. • Leaving stock cat in place – needs to pass Colorado emissions, and I like the idea that a fun resto-mod car which will get a lot of use doesn’t have to be a polluter. Here are a couple “before” pictures. Nobody will miss this tired 3.2 Carrera, will they? Stay tuned for part 3: the build. http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1459193343.jpg http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1459193354.jpg http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1459193363.jpg http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1459193374.jpg |
Awesome, game on!
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Cant wait to see progress of this!
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Sweet!!!!
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I am all about the environment but I wonder. With the cars we play with and the level of tune we keep them in...I wonder if the cat makes much difference? On a worn out car with bad gas and old spark plugs and other ignition components any car will pollute. I think that is what half of the emissions stuff is for...when the car gets old and out of tune - the way most folks keep their cars. But most of us keep them running in top shape and probably over tuned. I doubt the cat even removes much from from the exhaust of a great running car. All that said you will need the cat for visual.
Looking forward to seeing more details! |
cat
It's a good point about the cat. I did need it for visual, though I wonder if it's having much positive impact or just generating a lot of heat and creating exhaust backpressure. I've heard about 911s running very cleanly without cat, would be interested in testing mine both ways...
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Full disclosure and joker alert: member badwater is my brother. Described '71 "Lucy" is the first 911 I ever drove - which hooked me on 911s instantly. I've since have had a few cool cars thanks to him and Lucy. That's where it all started...lots of passion in this car that you'll all see shortly in parts 3+. I won't spoil the fun here - have some pics of the finished product when parked with my pride and joy. It turns heads for sure and has performance to boot.
EJP might be related too...although I have a tough time explaining the '88 carrera he drives. Training wheels? Either way, kinda cool having a family full of 911 fanatics and love seeing builds like this. Keep 'em coming! |
Subscribed for updates. Really look forward to seeing the finished product. Love Albert Blue and love the idea of the repro steel/alloy "steelies."
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Quote:
Good luck with this build! Still dying to backdate my '86... |
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I'm on board...
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Part 3: Teardown and body work
Part 3: Teardown and body work
The pics mostly speak for themselves, even if they can't really portray the level of effort and detail that went into this build. The teardown revealed a little more rust and a few more leaks than we had anticipated, but not too bad. http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1459306432.jpg http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1459306143.jpg http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1459306150.jpg http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1459306495.jpg http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1459306537.jpg The front fender extensions didn’t reach the bumper the first time. http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1459306271.jpg http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1459306279.jpg http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1459306294.jpg http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1459306311.jpg http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1459306331.jpg Stay tuned for part 4: The Build |
Ahh, I think I've seen photos of this car, I met Marc last year. If it's the one I'm thinking of, the finished article is stunning and the owner's a lucky man :cool:
I'll be in California at the back end of May this year, hoping to catch up with Marc then and talk cars :D |
Subscribed!!!!
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Part 4: The Build
Part 4: The Build
Leaving the body shop. http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1459472926.jpg Updated A/C parts http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1459472865.jpg Rebuilt brakes and front suspension coming together http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1459472884.jpg Front end and welded-in hood latch plate http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1459472904.jpg Steering wheel hub and horn button http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1459472967.jpg Restored gauges with LED lighting http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1459473017.jpg Raid/Racemark wheel http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1459473039.jpg Stock muffler cut open http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1459473085.jpg Stock muffler rechambered http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1459473111.jpg New seats from D'Eser. Perforated leather bolsters, corduroy inserts http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1459473135.jpg |
Great stuff, but I think your definition of limited budget is different than mine! Happy that you're getting to build your wish, it's a fantastic experience.
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I hear you! I did have to sell a very nice Lotus Elise to fund this project, first world problems to be sure. (BTW, a very nice Lotus Elise is worth about as much as a beat up 3.2 Carrera these days.) As you'll see, there were lots of really good ideas that I passed on to make the budget work, but this certainly wasn't cheap to me.
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Part 4A: More Build
Part 4A: more build photos
Engine after resealing and soda blasting http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1459523609.jpg rear suspension, rebuilt calipers, bolting up nice! http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1459523646.jpg putting some effort into back seats and seatbelts. maybe my kids will ride in back sometimes, and maybe that will mean more drive time for me! http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1459523555.jpg rear decklid looks nice! also, check out the exhaust after cleanup and paint. first look at the silver window and door trims http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1459523580.jpg nice fit on the light boxes and grills http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1459523629.jpg http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1459523695.jpg http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1459523730.jpg backdating the dash fascia and glovebox was more complicated than we had expected http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1459523750.jpg front end coming together right http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1459523775.jpg http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1459523790.jpg |
what wheels are those ? been looking for some wide steelies
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wheels
they're 16" alloy replicas of the steelies.
i've been really happy with them - i had wanted to use steelies, but I really didn't want to go with 15"s - tire selection limited and $$$$$. maybe ok for a collector car, but not good for a driver like this. cost to get them made was comparable to a used set of fuchs! Marc had them made, he can hook you up. check him out at Zurlinden, LLC |
Part 5: It's a car!
Starting in March, the build proceeded through the summer, and I first saw the car live at Zurlinden’s booth at Rennsport Reunion. For me, it was a pretty dramatic reveal, walking through thousands of fantastic P-cars to see mine!
http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1459807769.jpg We shipped the car to Denver in October, and it’s been a daily driver since, skipping a few snowy/icy days. http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1459807820.jpg She photographs well! Thank you to my daughter for the professional glamor shots... http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1459808752.jpg http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1459808360.jpg http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1459808225.jpg http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1459808429.jpg http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1459808448.jpg http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1459808467.jpg More importantly, how does she drive? I’ve been very pleased with the quality of the build, and there’s not much that I’d have done differently. It may be a little stiff for the amount of street driving that I do, and I’ve already raised the ride height a little to clear the speed bumps at my son’s school. I got in some high speed testing last month at High Plains Raceway and was very happy with high speed stability, braking performance, and flexibility of motor. The car was so good on the track that I suspect we built it one click too stiff for street. Overall, this car is super solid and has achieved my goals of longhood style, carrera reliability, and a little sport-purpose mixed in. What next? Well, my toy fund is pretty depleted for now. But, I do keep my wish list alive with a few more ideas: 1. Engine. I always felt like the throttle response on 3.2s is a little slow compared to carbureted 2.2. While I suspect that the lighter clutch and flywheel have helped, I really like the idea of adding PMO throttle bodies sometime. Or maybe replace with a short stroke 3.2? 2. Transmission. I’d like to rebuild/re-gear the tranny – maybe lower first and second gear? Or a lower R&P with a higher 5th gear? Add limited slip diff while we’re in there? 3. Exhaust. The rechambering added a little good exhaust sound, but I could go a little more sport there. Maybe SSI heat exchangers? 4. Sun visors. I’ve had two sets of repro sun visors, and they both sucked! I've now got a used pair (thank you, brother) that I repainted and am happy with the result. 5. Softer torsion bars. I think softening the ride one click would make it a better car for the mix of driving that I do – 99% street, <1% track. But I’m not in a rush on this. 6. Winter wheels and tires. I’ll definitely get some skinny wheels – maybe fuchs, maybe steelies - and mount snow tires on them by next winter. 7. Chrome bumperettes for rear. Maybe bumper decos, or just black stripes on the bumpers. That's all for now. Thanks to Marc at Zurlinden for being a great partner on this build - he really did make this an enjoyable process, and I really am delighted with the results. Also thanks to Dave B. at TRE for his advice and counsel along the way, and many others who pitched in when needed. I suspect that cars like this are never truly finished, but I'm happy to have her on the road and to be able to enjoy the ride. I will smile when I walk into my garage for a long time with this one! Thanks for reading, and please PM me with any questions that you may have. |
Another consideration that is sort of a no lose. Rather than smaller T bars go with some really high quality shocks that are matched to your 22/29s. Maybe even reservoir shocks. I think you will get the ride you want. If it is still too stiff you can keep the shocks and go lighter on the T bars but I think you will be happy. In my experience you can run shockingly stiff springs with high end shocks and get a great ride.
Super cool car. enjoy! |
Great build. Those wheels are fantastic!!!
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Wow. Looks awesome.
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It's a stunning looker, those wheels are amazing. Nice to hear it's a proper daily driver as well :cool:
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Holy CRAP!!! That is HOT! I love the simplicity....letting the iconic shape do what it's been doing for decades.... No silly hood lights, stripes, stickers, etc..... Perfect.
Any picks of the interior? I can only imagine you've done just as nice a job on the inside. |
Fantastic build-- a backdate done right!
How are you liking the D'eser seats? I visited their shop in Torino last fall, lovely people and great craftsmanship. Show us more pics please! |
interior shots
Thanks for the comments! I will see if I can get some better interior shots to post. Very happy with the d-Eser seats. High quality, worked surprisingly well on track, and pretty light too!
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Very nice work. Great thread.
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Saw this car early on in the process, then at RRV in the Zurlinden booth. It was a major magnet all weekend; great choice of colors, great build. And those wheels are a refreshing new look
thanks for sharing it with the community and happy we could help out a little |
What color blue is that? Reminds me of my 73E.
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badwater, that blue hue is stunning !
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that's the factory glasurit Albert Blue
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some interior shots
Pardon the low quality, but here are a few interior shots.
A few highlights:
http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1460125769.jpg http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1460125785.jpg http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1460125797.jpg http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1460125808.jpg http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1460125821.jpg http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1460125857.jpg http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1460125868.jpg |
not sure why some of these are upside-down. please stand on your head while viewing until i can fix...
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