Shaky steering wheel over 40MPH... main culprits tackled, still doing it

[IslandHopper]

Hey all, I was hoping I could get some advice on what to tackle next in my quest for fixing my shaking steering wheel! (Before everyone says to use the search function I have read all of the threads and thats how I figured out what to do so far... )

My steering wheel vibrates and then starts to shake back and forth maybe 1/4 inch at about 40mph and up, and it has been getting worse. It is very noticeable to me and even so that my passenger yesterday noticed my watch shaking back and forth while I was driving with my left hand...

I have done the first most obvious things to the car and want to know what I should do next, and also, if some of them are "while you're in there" and I should just do them all at the same time in case (I am getting tired of doing one thing at a time and then having to go back in again, but I also don't want to drop tons of money on parts that aren't needed of course)
I have been fixing up the car for a couple years and not driving it much as it drove like crap both the suspension, steering and the engine (just had the Webers rebuilt by Tom Amon which made a HUGE difference in how the engine runs! it was popping and running like crap), but I am so close now it is killing me and with the wheel shake I am afraid to drive on the highway.

- The front wheel bearings were repacked about 500 miles ago (3 years ago...) by the PO right when he sold it to me, they were sloppy and noted in the PPI so they were done at that shop while the car was there.
- All four tires were replaced and road-force balanced to perfection last week
- I replaced the front strut inserts right before the tires, MASSIVE difference in the front of the car after sitting for a long while, the old ones were totally shot (so bad in fact that the shaft could be moved in and out and they were so old they were oil filled Sachs inserts that were red in color)
- A four wheel alignment was done with 1 degree of negative camber in front, and a little bit of toe in front and rear, the alignment and sticky tires feel perfect!

SO, with the "likely culprits" out of the way, the steering wheel still shakes... At this point I am assuming bad ball joints and/or tie rod ends. Would one of these be more likely than the other?? AND, if both could be the culprit (and are both probably old) should this be something that I just DO BOTH while the car is in the air?? Or is there no time savings in doing them together where I could try one then the other?
If there was no "economy of time" in doing them together, I was thinking about upgrading to turbo tie-rod ends at some point so would probably do those first since they are easier. (but again if it makes sense to just have it all done at the same time then I could do that too)

Any help would be appreciated with any other ideas?? Someone in on thread mentioned the bushing near the universal joint in the smugglers box?? Is that something to look at too before or after these other items??

Thanks to everyone for some input on what to do next

[impactbumper]

when you say steering wheel shakes back and forth, is it like going towards you in and out?

[theFONZ]

I had a similar problem years ago. There is a plastic bushing just behind the wheel inside the steering column that causes wheel shaking when it deteriorates. Our host sells a high quality replacement. It's inexpensive and easy to replace.

[timmy2]

Mitch Leland bushing is the steering shaft fix referenced above.
Easy to install, pull the steering wheel and take a look.
Lots of posts about it.

[Trackrash]

If it was my car, I would jack up the front end and spin the tires. I know you said they were "ballanced". But 911s are very sensitive to front vibrations, and what is good enough for most cars is not for ours.

Make sure the tread spins straight with no wobble.

Then take off the wheels and check for the brake disks being true.

I had this issue when I first go my car and it turned out to be the brake hoses. They would cause a slight pressure on the pads, since the fluid wasn't allowed to return to the MC, leading to a slight vibration.

I doubt it is the ball joint, but worth checking.

[gtihop]

out of round tire or bent rim most likely

[sugarwood]

Is there play in the steering wheel when parked? Not turning but pushing it up and down, and side to side. If so, it might be bushing mentioned above.

[pete3799]

Get the front end off the ground and check the wheel bearings ( I read your post....check them again). After that place something very close to the side of the tires so it just clears (can of spray paint etc.) and spin them checking for run out (wobble or bent rim). Then move the can to the front of the tires and spin checking for any flat spots.
If that all checks out lower the front end back on the ground and have someone rock the steering wheel back and forth while you look for any play in the tie rod ends, ball joints, steering rack, steering column U joint, etc.

[jason2guy]

i dealt with this issue for over a year, drove me crazy. all the stuff you did is good- do the tie rod ends and balljoints first then do the inner bushings that come off the rack end- its the bushing that the tie rods connect to. those are what finally did it for me. also if you have the green bilstien struts be sure there is no play between the insert and the housing- if so youll have to replace the bushings in the housing. once all that is done the car will not shake

[twistoffat]

I had a similar issue. At higher speeds the steering was vibrating and randomly sending what i can only describe at bumps back through the steering wheel. I checked tyres and Wheel bearings etc etc. Turned out to be a failing bearing set on the upper steering column. By the time they failed the steering wheel had a half inch movement in all directions.It wasn´t even the bushing that had failed but the actual bearings.

[IslandHopper]

Everyone, thanks for the thorough and prompt responses.

First, one detail it seems would be important that I had left out, is that I am positive it is not the wheels and tires being out of balance or untrue. I had recently had a set of rota fox w brand new tires on the car and it did this shaking, so I pulled those off and had them re-checked for balance and those turned out to be perfect still. I sold those last month deciding to go back to black wheels from silver petals, and went back to the set of euromeister wheels I had and put brand new tires on them last week (as mentioned). The steering wheel still does the same thing with this set of wheels and tires as it did with the other set of wheels and tires, all double checked and road force balanced. SO, while I wouldn't actually bet my life on it, I am pretty damn positive that the wheels/tires are not the issue.

@impactbumper: it shakes side to side like it is ever so slightly turning left and right, not in and out.

@thefonz: thanks for that info, didn't know that bushing was there. One thing though, I have a hub adapter and period "Dino" wheel that looks kind of like a prototipo, do you know if this bushing would still be there? Or would it no longer be there because of the hub adapter.

@timmy2: thanks for the name, same question as above as to if it would still be there or not?

@trackrash: based on my above extra info, I'm pretty sure that it's not the wheels/tires at this point. I will however check that the brake discs are true. I imagine this might have some balance effect for sure, however the amount the wheel wobbles I think they would have to be waaaaay warped! It's like someone is shaking the wheel while I try to drive. I will also check out the brake hoses, I wouldn't never have even thought to check that!

@gtihop: I thought the same thing, but it's been the same with two totally different sets of wheels both with brand new balanced tires.

@sugarwood: not that I can recall, no, I will check it out tomorrow when I am back where I have the car parked, but I don't think so. It is basically just like a normal wheel feel until at speed and then it just starts jiggling left and right like I'm driving down a grooved road

@pete3799: I will check the wheel bearings again, I had sort of ruled it out due to them having been done recently, but maybe they were not done properly? Easy enough to do the spray paint can thing, but again pretty sure the wheels are fine.
I have access to both a two post and four post alignment lift, so I can actually put the car on the alignment rack and lift the car to get under it easily to check everything mentioned while someone rocks the steering. I was going to basically do that but haven't done it with a 911 before so will have to figure out what it is "supposed" to look like lol

@jason2guy: thanks for that info, didn't know those inner bushing would be something to look at. I'll see if I can find them in the pelican catalog to order at the same time I get the ball joints and tie rod ends.


Does everyone agree that if I'm going to change ball joints or tie rod ends I should just do them both at the same time? Parts aren't super expensive, but is there any time savings by doing them together vs trying them separately?

Thanks again for all the great info!

[universeman]

Do both. Unless you just like aligning the car. Or unless you just want to find out which is causing the issue. Look at it this way, if you do one and put the car back together and the problem is fixed, is not having done the other one going to bother you?

[jmz]

Ball Joints and tie rod ends had the same effect on mine ...about 20 years ago. Replaced and problem solved.

[NYNick]

Check your calipers and brake pedal to make sure neither is sticking.

[NoLift911]

Wheels and Tires. Out of balance. I know you are pretty damned sure but unless your suspension components are worn to the point of tugging/pushing on them elicits a wobble, that is not it.

So back to the wheels and tires. What size do you have? Why type of balance was done? Weights on inside of rim and outside of rim? Fuchs are notoriously hard to balance. Correct even wheel torque is also important.

Do you have any places around you that do on the car balancing?

You can also verify the balancing issue by jacking up the car and taking a hand drill with a large drum sander as the bit and get the wheel up to speed - then see what is vibrating.

[kuba_kuba]

I would definitely not trust Euromeisters to be true or easy to balance. As much as i love the way they look i've had immense trouble getting them to balance and/or stay within runout (tire + wheel) and had to dispose of two of them as multiple shops were unable to balance. I would definitely look at whether you have weights on inside and outside and how much the roadforce balancing is relying on weights to counteract run-out issues (not on spinning the tire relative to the wheel).

[rcotton]

Have the tires rebalanced with a machine that measures road force variation. Many tires balance are still bad for road force.

[jason2guy]

+1 road force balance the wheels, and just because the shop has that machine doesnt necessarily mean that that particular gorilla knows how to use it. so far ive been to 3 shops with that equipment and they all stated that they NEVER use the "road force" option when balancing. besides the road force feature that machine does a whole bunch of cool ****. and the thing is the whole point of the road force balance is to match the high spot of the tire to the low spot of the wheel. so once they mount the tire, run it on the road force and obtain the data, they would have to partially dismount the tire and turn it on the rim to the new position w/the least amount of road force, but they dont do that unless you fight w/them

[rnln]

I know you said you are pretty sure, but try another place to install/balance your wheels/tires just to make sure. And if you can, ask to see how your wheels/tires spin.

[T77911S]

it IS a bent rim or balancing.
all these other suggestions just aggravate the issue.

jack the front end up so it is just off the ground.
get a dial gauge and mount it to something solid and set it on the ground.
set the gauge to the flat surface at the edge of the rim.
then spin the rim. any movement =a bent rim.

I just did this YESTERDAY on my BMW.
had all 4 wheels straightened but one was still bad. found the front right was still bent.

another thing to check.
pull the center cap off of the wheel.
get a caliper and measure the inside of the hole at different angles.
if that center hole is out of round it WILL effect the balancing of the wheels.
or, take the wheels to a shop that can balance the wheels using the stud holes.
that center hole on one of my wheels is out of round. it CAN NOT be balanced on a standard machine. it actually could not be straightened because his machine used the center hole also.

could be an issue with the wheel bearings.
check the play up front. could be too lose.
if they are bad you may want to replace them