Yup, sometimes I wish I had an SC instead of the Carrera so I could fiddle with it a lot more before going on road trips and stuff. It would then be more of a fun hobby car. What fun is popping in a bottle of Techron once in a while??

Tim, how long did it take you to get it sorted? Serious question as I know you have done a ton of work to your car.

BAM!

Ho.........motronic.

In loving memory. Donald Turnipseed III. AKA: Ronnie's930. Banned for life a few weeks back for incessant sheep jokes. What a way to go. God rest his soul.

That's hard to say. Calendar time and actual work time aren't the same. I wouldn't say I was 'done' with the engine until about a year ago, so about 4 years on the calendar start to finish. It was spread out over time based on my available time to work on it, money, priorities and learning as I went.

Also going from absolutely zero Porsche knowledge is a steep learning curve. If you presented me with the same car today (knowing what I now know) it obviously wouldn't take as long as it did the first time.

Now I enjoyed doing my own work. That is a big part of why I bought the car in the first place. Now that this one is almost exactly where I want it, I am getting itchy again for another project. :)

That said, the other side of the coin is they work well for a long time if repaired correctly.

Let's say you want to check the Aux Air Regulator in a CDO (Tim/Tony) manner for 2jmotorsports.

You find the Allen wrench that fits the cap screws. You get the screws out 1/4 turn at a time. You unhook the two hoses and the electrical connection. Put it in the freezer to open it. Put it in the oven at 125F after it is frozen and see if it closes after six/seven minutes or so.

Pass? Ok. Back in the freezer 'till frozen. Hook up 12V to the terminals and see if it closes a little faster. Plus you want to check the ohms resistance on the coil that spins the disc at some time beforehand. Is resistance in the proper range?

Pass? Apply air pressure to one snoot while capping the other snoot. Any leaks from the body of the unit? Switch sides with the air.

Pass? Check voltage on connecting wire. 12V?

Pass? Hook back up and pressurize intake and make sure no leaks at connections.

Pass? Turn key on and with a mirror make sure by looking into the passenger side air snoot it closes with juice applied.

Pass? Good to go.

No particular order on steps and that is how I did it (with Tony's help) Just a demonstration of the work involved on one component.

Each step easy. You just need help/time to gather the info.

I love my baby... she make me happy and sometimes angry... something needs to be tuned an something needs replace.

Let's say this is what we like in our 911s. If we want to run without little problems we can simply buy a new porsche or two ... and they will run in the exact same way ... very fast but very boring.

Our cars and their problems is what make us keep reading this forum and this forum make us became friends... isn't it?

I say that every time an EFI thread comes up. Folks not willing to get the engine running correctly with the existing FI system because it is too expensive to rebuild a fuel distributor don't mind throwing 10x that amount in money and 20x the time in work to install a completely different system.

running a 3.2 here and will say in a year and a half I have sorted my car to run extremely well -- best 3.2 I've driven -- mostly mechanic's work with me doing the easy stuff.
That said -- this car runs in no way similar to my old 3.2 coupe which ran no way the same as my 3.2 targa. And all of these cars were low mile low owner cars -- just time and POs setting different courses for the lives of these living breathing beauties -- I mean seriously - imagine sending 3 911s each to at least 3 different homes over 30 year each -- the permutations for services and shift habits and track time and accidents and home repairs becomes HUGE. Amazing how many actually RUN

I know this is an SC thread, but I went through a couple of years of work getting my 73 2.7 with MFI right.

Lots of great MFI information here helped so much.

A good AFR instrument permanently installed was the key. I cannot over emphasize what a good tool this is.

Upgrade in CDI from Bosch and Pertronix Hall effect ignition were huge upgrades. I am sure it runs better than when it was new.

I started with a Mark Kinninger at Black Forest in San Diego built the engine in c 1997 so I started with a good base....and I have driven it 130,000 miles since rebuild.

I had my stock 3.2 in for a clutch, pressure plate, flywheel, 1-4 synchros, and general post-purchase fettle, to include a new alternator and setting the idle mixture with a sniffer probe up the exhaust pipe and it now runs amazingly well. (John Walker did the work.) Put the stock airbox back on as well. I am in the as-Porsche-intended-it mindset and it feels like they must have when new. Would be easy to daily-drive it if I wasn't nervous about leaving it unattended. And yes, just yesterday I reached in through the open window and started it and it idled up and settled in on its own after a few seconds. I had to write the check to get it sorted but it was worth it.

I have had 2 SCs. Both were set up to Euro spec, one was an actual Euro.

Yes, they run very well when set up correctly. Good power and good throttle response. I personally know carbs and Bosch electronic fuel injection much better than CIS, but CIS is a good system. Steve Weiner always says to put Marine Stabil in your tank with every fill up. I think that is a good idea for people who run CIS, and don't drive a lot.

With very few exceptions, CIS can be made to run well. Webers, or PMOs really have a throttle response advantage, because when you stomp the throttle hard, you open the butterflies and dump a TON of fuel right down into the barrels of a six cylinder cannon. It's the 1812 overture right now, going off in your engine. And almost as smokey.

CIS and Ljetronic also have a problem with radical cams, which carbs do not. But there are good grinds out there. Stock is nice for a lot of people, because of tractability, but really, taking the cork out of the exhaust is great if you can do it. A lot of people overlook the mechanical advance in the distributor on CIS cars, and heck, as old as they are, this is something that can easily freeze up.

Always a good idea to baseline these cars and get all the deferred maintenance out of the equation. And really, aside from the engine and fuel injection, these cars are pretty basic.

I have a '75 S with a mostly stock 2.7 (that I rebuilt) with CIS - all running as the good doctor intended. No cold start issues and pulls through the entire power band.

I'd like to argue against you, Brian, but there's some truth in your statement. :)

But once they're dialed in, they're great.

Both the 70 and the 88 run as good or better than new. They both get regular exercise.

The Hardest part for most people is they have .....NOTHING ....to compare to. How are u supposed to know your car is running they way its meant to when you only drive your own car. I guess if it makes you happy the way it is ........stop.

I have mine pretty well dialed in, with the exception of a higher idle speed than stock. It handles running the A/C better without having the off throttle dips due to compressor drag. CIS didn't have a mechanism to compensate for that, and I like mine to run a bit rich.

The problem for me with the 'as Porsche intended' or as my old mechanic Otto used to say "Porsche knew what the f*ck they were doing" - which is why he was in the run it stock camp (unless it was track built of course) is that in North America we are all driving cars that AREN'T as Porsche intended out of the gate. So until we restore to RoW spec we haven't begun. Now my compression is not euro but my chip (again, 3.2) and euro premuffler get it closer.
I don't know what the CIS equivalent is but I know the US (and therefore Canadian) SCs were hamstrung too.

its all too confusing

Simple. Even if you turn your own wrenches, take the car into a well-known, respected air-cooled focused shop and ask what they think. It's called a PPI (in this case, POST Purchase Inspection :D ).

I do all my own work aside from mounting tires and alignments, and have taken my car to two shops in the past two years for jobs I couldn't do. I ask the shops to check the car out, because my skills are confined to maintenance, not diagnosis. I'll do this even if the car "feels" perfect to me--it's the worth the charge, if they charge.

One shop recharged the a/c and looked the car over (given clean bill of health), the second was an alignment and c/b, in which they noted I was lacking a clutch pedal spring and a few other minor issues that have cropped up. I thought all Carreras had heavy clutches, apparently not!

Driving some other guy's car won't help--how can you know his is "better"? I leave the diagnoses to the professionals and bring the car back home to turn the wrenches myself. No confusion that way.

I'm sticking with my best guess... 11

My 3.2 starts pretty much straight up, cold, or hot, and idles ok,[it wasnt always the case] although the one thing that has always concerned me a bit is; the idle doesent seem to change when i remove the oil filler cap, i have checked for air leaks etc, but havent found anything obvious yet, apart from that, it seems to drive fine.:)
A...

its all too confusing..............

There are four things designed to allow air to bypass the throttle. Two are used on start up. One is used when you lift off the throttle at high rpm. One is the idle air bypass screw. That is not overwhelming one piece at a time.

There are no other places air should enter your intake except for the throttle and when you pull the oil cap off.

Idle will not drop on a 3.2 like the SC. Your fuel delivery is not based on intake vacuum which lifts an air sensor which changes the injector fuel amount. Pull the cap on an SC, you change the vacuum and the air sensor moves.

I just had Ingo Schmitz repair my ECU. It is a 1984 3.2 Targa. In March, I drove it from Philadelphia to Amelia Island and back. I beat the living daylights out of it there and back. My voltage regulator failed within the first hour. I kept driving. Nothing happened. I made it to Florida with no drama. Just an oil leak that, while not causing dramatic oil loss, did manage to spray a nice film of oil all over the rear of my car. Got the car home. Spent $80 and replaced the voltage regulator. Got the oil leak almost solved.

My car runs probably better than it did when it left the factory. And yes, every year when I take it in for the State Inspection, my tech takes it for a drive. He claims it runs perfect.

If only the damn thing would stop leaking on me!

I'm not sure how many correctly running cars there are out there, but mine ain't one of them. Working on it though.

The idle should drop on a 3.2 when you remove the oil filler cap, as you introduce an air leak through the oil breather pipe.

There is even a restrictor in the oil tank breather pipe to make sure it does not drop too much so you can check the oil level OK, without the restrictor the engine stalls when you remove the oil cap.

Mark

mine starts, idles st 900, and pulls like a mother to redline and idle drops with cap removal.
well, that was before it dropped a valve guide

I looked up the oil lines and parts for 84-86 and saw the restrictor.

Thanks for the info. I know that early CIS cars don't have the idle drop because of plumbing.

I recently got my car back from John Walker's Workshop, and it's ready for LeMans.

Well I guess that's why I stuck with my Weber's on a 3.0L in my 72. Ignition/carberation, that's the only thing you need to look at.

yep. the idle used to drop before I put new studs in, now with new O-rings, vacuum hoses and the like it stalls immediately. frustrating to say the least

Yep,
Thats what I thought, and I changed the breather pipes as soon as I had the car, I put the restrictor back in too, as stated, still not sure why the idle doesent drop when the oil cap is removed.

I bought my '82 SC a few years ago and it ran like crap. Mechanic said it was the WUR so that was rebuilt. It ran better after that but for the next year or so it always seemed to start differently each time...basically some variation on the theme of fires immediately from cold then stumbles, pops, spits and finally settles into a 1200 or so idle when cold. Hot starting was sometimes a real issues too but not always. Replaced the usual: plugs, wires, set timing, new fuel filter, new accumulator, etc. and no real change. Always had a strange hiccup in the idle once and again. If anything it got worse the more parts I changed.

So finally I decided to take a look at the injectors which is something nobody really seems to talk much about when discussing CIS. After considering the pro's and con's of how much work is required to simply pull and clean them I decided to just install new parts. So I pulled and replaced all six injectors and sleeves with new o-rings everywhere. Starting is transformed. Fires immediately and settles right into a nice idle dead cold after sitting for weeks. Same thing hot.

So my two cents is don't overlook an important link in the chain when diagnosing starting issues.

cheers

Enjoy what you have
 

I have been thru both MFI & CIS on the same car. You may have to take a step back and think like the engineers that designed the fuel systems. MFI is a "hoot" to say the least but "warm up" is not for the "plug & play" crowd. CIS was easier on the driver but remember that Bosch CIS was probably the most widely used OEM FI in the world for about 20 years on numerous makes & models but it is not EFI. Then came EFI to make things more "plug & play". FI works how it was designed & operates within tolerances unless there is a real problem so I tend to put things in that perspective. CIS in a 40 year old P car will require some care & patience/tolerance. Having passengers complain about warm up running of MFI on a cold day is just standard operating procedure in this overly PC world. I just ride with Speed Dog to avoid stupid comments/complaints and then I have a very pleasant ride. :)

I'm sorry to say but injectors, o-rings and sleeves are things that are frequently discussed. Tony (boyt911sc) often recommends that people pull their injectors and stick them in baby food jars to check the volume of flow and spray pattern. The o-rings and sleeves are well known vac leak sources.

Not trying to be a jerk here. I'm just pointing out you ran into one of the many problems with Internet troubleshooting. If I could wave a magic wand and have any of the resident CIS experts standing in my driveway swilling a beer while we looked at a problem, we probably could get to the root cause a lot faster. Looking at something in person is so much better than trying to ask "does it go ca-chunka ca-chunka or more of a ping thwap wap?" on an Internet forum.

And maybe when you posted the guy who might've correctly diagnosed the problem in a flash was out on vacation that week.

All that being said, I'm sure glad you found your problem and got it sorted out.

Bringing that full circle back to the original post... it is hard to say that a car runs like it should when you have no basis for comparison. Hard to hit a target if you don't know what you're aiming for. I was 10 when my car rolled off the assembly line. I grew up in BFE Alabama. I could tell you what a '83 Camaro should sound like but not an '83 Porsche 911. In fact, the only thing I did know was that my car sounded a lot more like an old Camaro when I bought it and that ain't right!

PS - My wife says it's easy to know what an old Porsche sounds like. A Volkswagen! Gets me fired up every time.

I was told by my wrench your car will die on a Tuesday, he does not tell me which Tuesday
it has been 9 years since a transplant done, she just keep on running, love this 911 thanks

Take it easy Tim. I'm not sure what "problem" you think I ran into.

My car ran better with a new WUR but still had the cold start stumbles. So I worked my way through a list of long deferred items and then made a judgement call to deal with the injectors since they were original as well. I see probably 10-15 posts about WURs to every mention of injectors and was just passing along my experience for others so consider what you paid for the information...

cheers

Sorry didn't mean anything by the comment. I did try to preface what I was saying. Apologies if it came across the wrong way. I get your point now.

My point is, kinda like you said, you read 10 posts where people have a problem with the WUR and then 1 on the injectors. Easy to fixate on the WUR when that might not be your problem. I've done it and probably most of us have done the same thing at some point. You formulate a list of possible culprits and then you start trying to track them down and rule them out until you find the problem. If you're good or lucky it's the first thing on the list. If not it's the 10th thing on the list. But if you started with checking the fuel pressures and found no problem, for example, that's not necessarily time wasted. It means you know with confidence that is not the problem and that is still valuable info. It seems like a lot of CIS issues are not one thing but a combination of things (like the classic mixture enrichment to cover up vac leaks). While it may take longer and be frustrating that the 10th thing on the list is what really fixed it for good, that is how you make sure the car is running correctly, which was the original question.

My 87 Carrera was sold to the first owner in Sarasota. It never idled right, and the local techs just richened (sp?) up the low end fuel and let it stumble. Back then the Porsche mechanics in Sarasota were not 100% full time Porsche mechanics, I am assuming they probably are today.

I bought it off of the Doc years later and took it to Black Forest Automotive for it's 60K 'turn your head and cough'. I told the tech about the idle when I dropped it off and he immediately wedged his head into the engine compartment and said "Yup. You are missing intake manifold gaskets." Wha? When I picked it up he told me that they had seen Carreras that had missing gaskets and gaskets that had 'sucked in'. Mine had both, big time air leak. Idled fine after that.

My takeaway from this is if you have access to (and can afford to) take your car to a race shop for any real problems you can't handle or figure out yourself. They are the guys that really know these cars. So far I have managed to do all of my maintenance and repairs myself, including a clutch replacement, but I am dreading the big engine problem that requires a true pro to fix.

Bob