HOW many CORRECTLY running cars are there really?
 

With all the different owners of these cars (generally speaking) how many cars I wonder are correctly adjusted. Example: One PO adjusts up to RICH to cover up all the vacuum leaks that he can't or doesn't want to find, the next guy rebuilds, buttons everything up, now its tight as a frogs a"" and too rich.
The next guy deletes the Cat, keeps the O2 sensor, next guy keeps Cat but deletes O2 sensor. another guy puts in a bypass pipe and takes everything out.

It makes you wonder.........take 20 random SC owners......ok everybody take off your Oil cap..........one idle goes up, one goes down, one sideways, one pops, one stalls out...... on and on and on.....

Wonder if there's 2 SC's that actually run alike??

Ha! I thought the same a few years ago when i got my SC. It runs great except for a slightly higher idle when fully warm (1100 rpms). I started looking into it, 02 sensor is unplugged, decel valve bypassed, no smog pump, runs pig rich, idle screw is in all the way...... Looks like I'm in the "not setup correctly" bucket.

I will say this though, I've heard how horrible throttle response is with CIS but I have yet to experience it with my SC. It reacts very quickly.

that's funny. See what I mean. Your the first reply and you've changed about ten things!!:) I have a feeling this will be a true confession post........its ok boys just get it off your chest!!:)

How many times have you eyeballed someone else's similar car and wish you could just grab the keys outta' his hand and drive it around the block to compare to yours.

Its really hard to gauge where you stand sometimes. You could've been driving with a Horribly stiff clutch pedal for years when you shouldn't have been etc!!

Not too many.

Coming from old vw's that run in various stages I run my 911 with its quirks as i learn how to fix them. Running rich is better than running lean. Idle is goofy sometimes and I suspect a leak and have fixed a few leaks. Nothing my foot can't handle at the moment on the gas pedal. I think we all want a sweet running car but life gets in the way to those that wrench on theirs. I hope to get really into working on it when i get my shop up and going and I can drop the motor and figure out all the quirks.

I can see this thread growing legs.
Am sure you'll agree that age plays a major role too with part degradation with or without un-maintained mods.
I've worked on one SC where I found a BB stuck in a vac line (can't recall if it was for the Dizzy or Decel valve).
3.2 Carrera's aren't immune I'm sure - my DME ICV driver was kaput and the PO just bought a new ICV (no effect) to fix it, the O2 sensor had been disconnected too - he said it ran better w/o it but it suffered in colder climes until I went over everything.
What I wonder is how many don't even come to this forum?
on edit: there are fixes and there are band-aids

Mine runs as Porsche intended in 1982.

I am glad you did not ask how long it took me.

If you buy an SC or Carrera you better be mechanically inclined or willing to learn. Taking these old car to a professional wrench gets expensive real fast.
With the oldest of these cars getting close to 40 years old, all the rubber paraphernalia in the engine compartment needs to be replaced. The wur, being an electro-mechanical device, may need to be overhauled as well. I'm sure many cars need ignition components replaced as well.

Mine runs as designed if not even better.

Part of the full rebuild was a total overhaul of the intake system. There are a LOT of little rubber connections and plastic tubing that look fine but were either hard as a rock or swolen up and very soft. No doubt I had tons of little air leaks.

Now the car starts right up hot or cold and runs perfect from idle to red line. I have the the idle set at 950 instead of 850 on the suggestion of Steve Wong for his chip. I do like the very slightly higher idle speed.

So I would put mine in the running correctly side if you consider the idle is deliberately set 100 RPM higher than the factory originally designed.

so that makes about 3 or 4 now in the continental US :)

Even the ones like Glen's that are running properly will not run alike on cold start.

There are so many band-aids (what Bruce Anderson called them) on the CIS system that each component would have to be calibrated the same and the test done in the same parking lot at the same time with both in the shade or both in the sun while stone cold. Same temperature on key turn.

My neighbor was complaining about his 82 SC cold idle hunting and smelly exhaust after he got it back from the top end job. Seems the mechanic set the injection very rich "because they run better that way," according to him. I had to lean it almost half a turn to get it in the ballpark so it stops hunting and no longer stinks up the neighborhood.

At least this 82 is running correct now.


Cheers,

Joe

BoB: that's pretty funny. And my main point. I think people, including myself get to a certain point after fixing this, fixing that, that you just ride with the quirks and say the hell with it. It was never PERFECT never will be, who cares, drive more worry less.

Tall order for us obsessive compulsive types.

I've owned a half dozen 3.0 CIS and 3.2 Motronic cars, including a couple turbos from the same era. All ran fine and, contrary to the last post, they ran fine from new, too.

The biggest problem these cars face is the owners are more often than not unwilling to spend the money to keep them in good condition and they, as well as many shop technicians, either don't have a full understanding of the systems and or shortcut any diagnostic work. Then there are all sorts of backyard "tuning" tips and recommendations on modifying the systems to "make them run better."

There were so many changes in the CIS era that almost nobody understands the differences and a good chunk of the advice given here is wrong, as the people giving it assume their own car is the same as someone else's. Then there are the parts substitutions with the wrong components, either because they can't find the right part or, through ignorance, assume a different part is interchangeable.

JR

Mine seems to run just fine for a 43 year old car. Why should I worry about it?! :rolleyes:

Tom

I think a tell tale sign you have it correct is if you reach through the window, turn the key when cold and it starts and goes right up to high idle and drops down on it's own as the "band-aids" do their thing.

My 81 does the instant start and depending on temperature and battery condition it will then do some form of a 500 rpm dance before it goes up to 1,700. Sometimes a second and sometimes five seconds. Expressions like "Really?" don't seem to help.http://forums.pelicanparts.com/suppo...leys/freak.gif

Keep in mind even modern cars with digital sensors will run a little differently on start up depending on what the weather is.

Sounds familiar!

JR: Good points all. Although I do believe some people have their point of submission after years of joy, anger, homicidal thoughts, confusion, second guessing, fright on working with these cars, would rather spend time with a grandkid than chase down that last annoying vacuum leak for the 6th time!!

I've owned three 911s and it always amazes me the state of the car once I get into it and start looking in the nooks and crannies. People will spend a lot of money on the purchase and then not maintain the thing. Or, they'll take it to a mechanic who has no business working on a 911.

I've heard it said that if you own a 30+ year old car, there is an excellent chance that at some point in the car's life you can be assured that it was worked on by someone who had no clue what they were doing.

So going to 1700 rpm is good at startup! Cool then I feel better as my car is doing that. Just takes some time to come down to idle. I run my idle at 1000 to compensate for some other weird problem. Most likely vac problems. If i had to park my car for every little problem i would never get to drive it. I drive and fix as I go. Always aware of changes and sounds and oil consumption. Still I can't wait to get working on it.

That RPM lag on start up can be isolated, though.

Mine improved dramatically when I plugged the vacuum retard hose at the distributor. However, something in my CIS system on cold start is not correct and I masked it by advancing timing at idle.

The truth is out there.

I have a 3.2 so yes,. mine runs correctly.

I've heard it said that if you own a 30+ year old car, there is an excellent chance that at some point in the car's life you can be assured that it was worked on by someone who had no clue what they were doing.
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Kurt

say no more

Mine runs pretty much as it should (according to the manual). Does what it should when the oil cap is removed, goes about as fast as it should and sounds pretty much like it should. I have the stock CIS system and it has been pretty stable through out my ownership of the car.

Regards
Dave

Or better yet, Maybe good ole Ferdy Porsche is rolling around in his grave laughing like hell.
"What are those idiots doing? they're all different, run different, act different but they're all part of a paradise........and no two man's paradise is ever the same...yes" [

I cant seem to leave well enough alone on my 72. One day I think its running great, the next day I might hear something, feel something that isn't just right, and out come the tools. Sometimes for the better, most with me hitting the bottle later on. Sometimes it amazes me that these old mfi even run, cis, no thanks. :)

Mine 78 starts up to hi idle from dead nuts cold , settles down to a nice idle , no popping back firing NO POP OFF VALVE . runs smooth a silk ... just the way it left the factory .. oh wait damn .. someone stole my cat .. !!

Mine doesn't run as intended by Porsche. It's a '75 S engine.

I firmly believe that there is only one man on Earth who could get it to run exactly as intended. He lives in Stuttgart, is 97 years old, and has a PhD in thermo-dynamics, or something like that.

Both of mine run perfectly. My 77 has bone stock CIS everything configured to factory specs and I hate it. My RS clone has Zeniths I tuned myself and it's the holy grail of cold start, power band, throttle response, and reliability.

I cant seem to leave well enough alone on my 72. One day I think its running great, the next day I might hear something, feel something that isn't just right, and out come the tools. Sometimes for the better, most with me hitting the bottle later on. Sometimes it amazes me that these old mfi even run, cis, no thanks.
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Tobluforu ; Too Funny

The PO of my car took great care of my Carrera and i've continued the practice since I have owned it, going on 16 yrs now putting over 100K on it. I am proactive with the mx and it runs wonderfully. And this is not a garage queen, I do numerous road trips every year.
http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1461777103.jpg

My 3.2 runs like a sewing machine.

Good stuff. always crosses my mind. I did a complete bottom and top rebuild with split case and everything. Car idles wonderfully, but under acceleration it sounds like it's missing a bit. I did mess around with the idle and fuel mixture prior to hunting down all vacuum leaks. now everything probably out of sorts and the idle is a little high 1100. So yes I am still trying to find that sweet spot.

Yes it does. In early 81, more than two years before the 3.2 was released, the decision was made to girly-girl up the 911 by 1984. The "Ho" was scrubbed from the spelling of Motronic for obvious reasons.

I don't want to start problems but these are just things I hear.

I'm going to go out on a limb and say 'NONE', including yours.

My 3.2 never ran that great, but it had a custom chip made for the turbo.

Now, with MegaSquirt, it runs really good minus a cutting out issue under heavy load that I'm replacing the entire ignition system from scratch.

I know I don't count on thus tgread, but it is true about these running right.

Many simply dont....

Amen to that!

I don't have OCD, I have CDO <--- letters have to be in alphabetical order.

Bought my '83 SC 5 years ago. Ran like crap. Intake backfired all the time. Felt sluggish, not very much like a Porsche. I was told they all run like this. That didn't seem right. With the help, patience and occasional ass-kicking from this board my car runs great now. Went to a local PCA meeting recently. When I fired up my car this guy turned around and said 'your car starts GREAT!'

It is a time consuming to get one running right and requires being systematic in your approach or you're playing CIS whack-a-mole all the time. But it is very satisfying when you get it running right.

I have documented evidence that supports that theory!