input needed for no start

[A horse with no name]

Hi, I have the infamous no start issue. I have been reading numerous v good threads on what it could be to no avail.

When I re & re'd the rear suspension, I also replaced the fuel pump, DMT relay, O2, head, speed & reference sensors, including a Steve Wong chip. Since this time, I never made note as to which of the two plugs that the speed and reference sensors went into. I do know that the top one is for the head sensor
I does states that if it doesn't start to just reverse them. After doing this it still did not start.

I have no spark whatsoever at the plugs, and I also cannot smell any fuel. On the ECU #1 pin - coil - I get a 12.8 reading. When testing kohms for the speed and reference sensors, at the end of their connectors, I get 9889. When installing the reference sensor, I did glue a 0.8mm thick washer to set the space between it and the flywheel pin.

I have, for the time being, removed Steve's chip, and reinstalled the original one. It is installed correctly according to Steve's instructions. I did this with the thought that it may possibly make it a little easier for the ECU to sync.

The ECU looks as new. Very clean and shiny, and I could not see any cracked solder joints anywhere.

Prior to changing all of the above sensors, the car ran very well. Even after sitting for a long period it would start within just a couple of turns. The cap, rotor etc. only has about 1000 km -60K miles on them. The car has 126,000 km's - 78K miles.

Any and all thoughts will be greatly appreciated...Thanks in advance.

[DRACO A5OG]

Hmmm?

Okay, so you removed the ref/speed sensor mounting bracket to install the sensors?

Did you try the old DME relay, new one could be bad out of the box.

Also the wiring harness for the CHTS and sensors, did the "click" in to insure a proper seat?

[A horse with no name]

Yes...The connectors are 'snapped' right in. I still though have no way of knowing if they are in the right socket. I wonder if there is a way of finding out which one is the right one? They, as you likely know, are not marked like the sensor cables.

I replaced the new DMT with the old one. When I turned the ignition on I could hear the fuel pump with both of them. Can't say that I noticed that before. After checking things out for sometime, the pump now doesn't go on when I turn the ignition on. I did jump the fuse for the pump -#6 - and it works. I kept it jumped for a moment while I cracked the rear fuel rack plug. It had pressure.

I think that I should take the reference sensor off so as to see, if by chance, that the pin on the fly wheel hasn't been sheared off. I was going to have a look but I put it off as it is such a pig of a thing to get at. Yes, I did have the sensors bracket off as I had removed all of the tin work so as to repaint them.

As I just stated, I somehow have to work out what the correct sockets are for these two sensors before I go any further ay. What do you think?

[A horse with no name]

BTW, I have zip movement on the tach when cranking...Meaning?

[DRACO A5OG]

Here is a post by a Pelican: no-spark problem finally resolved

See if you followed all steps.

No Tach means speed sensor is not reading. So we are at the correct culprit, sensors.

On our 3.2s, the fuel pump will not activate until car is on, so not hearing the pump in "ON" position is normal.

With the old DME relay in place, try one more time to swap the sensor connectors.

[DRACO A5OG]

I think I know what happened, you gaped it 1/8th, right? 0.125 inches = 3.175 MM, that is way too wide.

Should be per the post above and in the Bentley 0.8MM = 0.0315 inches

[A horse with no name]

Wow!...What an excellent write up!.. I wish that I had been able to read this Pelicans thread on my first go around.
I'm going to make up his 'Thinga-ma-jig' tomorrow so that I see if the flywheel still has a pin I sure hope that it does. I'll still have to keep looking around to see if I can find out which is the correct sockets for these two sensors.

Jim, what do you think?..It shouldn't harm anything if I were to run 12V down one of the female sockets to find out what # the ECU speed or sensor pin connector is... Would it?

[DRACO A5OG]

No need, just get an extra long spare wires and hook them up and put the leads of you DVM to see which one is showing a closed loop via continuity tester on audible mode. :-D

Less chance of burning up a wire, these are thin signal wires after all.

Maybe a 9 volt???

[A horse with no name]

Sorry about that...No it was a 8mm washer that I used. I actually ordered it when I purchased the sensors. ( BMW) BTW, having the leads a bit longer is an advantage over the Porsche ones. Crazy eh...The same sensor for half the price. Just an other little 'RrrrriP' eh.

[DRACO A5OG]

You do mean 0.8 MM correct?

Yeah, right, BMW cheaper than Porsche, go figure :-)

[A horse with no name]

Correct...0.8mm. Just about as thin as a razor blade.

Your thought of using 9 V's is a much better idea. I even have a new one that I keep as a spare for my multimeter. I'll let you know how I go sometime tomorrow.

Hopefully the flywheel still has a pin

Jim...Thanks so much for your input...Much appreciated!

[DRACO A5OG]

Oh my pleasure Brother Michael!

[A horse with no name]

Update...I should have thought about it a bit longer than I did re 'which' female wiring plug is the speed or reference sensor? I just did a simple multimeter continuity test to find out.

The BG - Bezugsmarken geber - Reference mark identifier.... or 'giver' - are pins #25 & 26 on the ECU connector. The other female plug is obviously the speed sensor.

As a matter of interest to anyone, if you have the female plug in the position to plug in... (there are 3 pins to each plug)

The top pin is a ground
The center pin is #25
The bottom pin is #26

With this sorted, I will now spend the afternoon trying to find out what the no start issue is... 'Happiness is'... hearing it run again

[DRACO A5OG]

Is the old sensor still intact? If so try it.

We need spark

[A horse with no name]

I found it...At least one if them.
The speed sensor was a whisker tooo close to the flywheel. It's toast. The reference sensor looks OK but I now have to turn the engine over to check on the 'pin'

I don't think that I threw the old ones away?...I'll have to have a look. At least I know what it is eh... Yes ! - 'The Phoenix' will rise from the ashes soon!

[DRACO A5OG]

Nice

[A horse with no name]

Unfortunately, not even an old Phoeinix, nor has anything else risen from the ashes

I'm back to square one it appears. I have not only gapped (0.8mm 1/2 O.D. washer) and replaced the new replacement speed sensor, but I also just finished taking both them out again to check if they were OK - They were.

I have new speed, reference, head, O2 sensor, including a DME.

I'm back to having no spark or fuel pump. The pump works well when it is jumped from the fuse panel. I even put in a new fuel pump relay.

I have opened up my old and new DME, and when the key is on, or when trying to start it, the points in both of them do not activate. The one thing that is baffling me is that when I jump pins #30 - #87 -#87b, the pump still will not engage.

#30 has 12V. I have done and redone many electrical checks. What am I missing???...

All input is most welcome!!

[DRACO A5OG]

Let's go back to the ECU. When you put the harness on, did it "CLICK" closed to the harness or just mate together? Take a look at the pins to see if any are smashed or out of alignment.

[A horse with no name]

Due to the plastic on the metal 'lock' side, there really wasn't a click as such but they are definitely seated. It's interesting that you asked about any mashed pins. Due to wondering the same thing, they were the last thing that I checked. I did 'tighten up' a couple of them, but none were so out of position as to impede the harness pins.

Both good questions. Please keep them coming

BTW, do you happen to know why the pump won't go on after 'jumping' the three pins 87-87b and 30? As mentioned, when I manually push the points on the DME relay, the pump does go on but not when jumped.

[A horse with no name]

I have confirmed that the coil is OK...

I pulled the distributors coil wire, and then plugged it into a new spark plug. I then ran a jumper off of the ignition side of the coil. With the plug close to a ground, I touched/rubbed the ignition wire to the ground and I was glad to see a nice blue 'zap' from the plug.

I still can not get the fuel pump to activate by jumping #87 - 87b and #30 to either of the DME's. One that was working and the new one I had as a spare. If I manually hold the points on either DME's - covers off - the pump will run.

I have 13 V at the female side of #30.