To me, the only good thing about this car is the stripper no sunroof options.

That is exactly what I bought for my project about 5 years ago. The car I purchased was a '78 Euro that had been side swiped. ~75K on the odo, one owner, all updates, PAINFULLY bone stock. I paid, I think, ~$9K for it. Something like that.

Check out my web site and see what it looks like now. After buying a 930 donor, doing the widebody conversion, putting in the modified 3.3Turbo motor, and every thing else, I have the exact car I wanted. Light weight, 5spd, good looks, and powerfull as hell.

Should I have bought a 930 in the first place?
It's a toss up. This car wieghs ~2500lb and has no power anything, no A/C, and a 5spd. To get a 930 to the same place would have taken similar steps. I sold the strong running 3.0L and all the unused parts and chassis from the 930 donor.

Still, when it's all said and done I've got enough money in it to buy TWO '78 930s. BUT - and this is a big but - I have a car with fresh paint, fresh engine, and put together EXACTLY as I wanted it.

You really need to sit down and hammer out a plan. Doing the work yourself saves some money, but not as mutch as you might think.

Any 911 that needs significant work is not economically a good investment. Unless you want new paint and a new motor in a light weight car, and plan to spend way more than it is worth in the market, I would pass on this.

"Any 911 that needs significant work is not economically a good investment. Unless you want new paint and a new motor in a light weight car, and plan to spend way more than it is worth in the market, I would pass on this."

Smart (read educated) opinion. Rebuilding Porsches is a hobby not an investment. Of the 10K or so of new parts in my SC, 1700 of that is not stock, the 8" Fuchs and a set of Ricaros. That is 8k worth of stock parts that needed replacement. Add another $2500 that still needs doing.

The interesting comments will be a year from now by 125shifter ;)

Yeah! Yeah! I want what Steve's smoking!
When friends give me that line "I'll restore it myself and save money over getting a really nice one." I tell them it is a nice theory.

ChrisBennet

As far as the rebuild goes, like I said, without replacing any major components you can do a rebuild and interior for under $4,000.00.

The most challenging part of purchasing a car with the intention of doing a rebuild is picking the right car. I wouldn't hesitate to pick a P-car up for $4 or $5 G and do a rebuild. I would definitely have to look at it first because that tells a lot about a car.

Neglect is one thing which can have adverse effects on both car and engine and you can tell pretty much by looking at it. There is also the individual who tries to hide things and this can also be sorted out.

On the other hand, a car sitting for several years even if the engine is siezed up (like mine was) doesn't mean it's not a good buy. You just have to know what you're looking at and feel satisfied that when you plop down the money for the purchase, you are walking away with that decision regardless of the outcome - good or bad, and you can't whine about it because it turned into a "cash cow".

I have enough confidence in myself and experience to take on challenges that a lot of people would otherwise pass up. Maybe that's why I got such a good deal on my P-car and it didn't cost me a arm and leg to fix.

Steve

" A Porsche does more then just go fast in a straight line"

Ah yes, I believe I've heard that once or twice. It is usually followed by posts with questions about myriad little fixes, then posts complaining about how upside down they are on the car.

In a few select instances you can break even on the car. But odds are you'll be in for a shock if you enter with this mindset. If you want a project, go for it, but don't expect to get out without a loss. If you want a driver and not a project, spend the money up front for a better sorted car.

I took a better look at the car to see for sure if had been wrecked and sure enough it has. I guess I wasn't looking very hard before since it's pretty obvious. It appears to have taken a pretty heavy hit on the front end. Both fenders have been replaced or at least removed and there are areas at the front of the trunk that have been spray painted black. This appears to be a very bad repair job.

Better you found out now and not after you shelled out the cash. Every used car 5+ years old has a story. I looked at a bunch of cars and ultimately heeded advise to pay more up front for something in good shape. Being that I have no interest in rebuilding a 911, I just wanted to drive it, it was sound advice. Best of luck to you.

Run away screaming. The only way to break even is to buy an example that truly needs nothing (actually, there is no such thing...it's jsut a theory).

Also, if your dream is a 930, then make a plan to get a 930. A 911 is not a 930. They are different cars. A 930 is not a turbocharged 911. I'll bet Rarly can verify this now.

Thanks for all the advice, I will not be buying this car. Now the problem is that it's still in my garage.

Here's the whole story for those of you that are curious: A friend from work mentioned that he had a 911 that had been sitting for 5 years since the clutch went out. I told him I was planning to buy a 911 and since I hadn't owned one, I offered to change his clutch for a reasonable rate so that I would get a good hands on look at 911 mechanicals. After a quick look under the car, I found it wasn't the clutch that broke. The passenger side outboard CV joint bolts loosend and/or broke. So I replaced the CV joint and the bolts in about an hour, I sure thought I was lucky not having to pull the engine.

Since it was parked for 5 years I drained the fuel tank and put in 5 gallons of fresh super. I'll jump a few steps and say I installed a new fuel pump, fuel filter, and WUR. Now the car starts and idles but won't rev. After checking fuel flow, fuel pressure, injector spray, fuel distributor, etc, I determined there was a vacuum leak that I couldn't find since it would rev fine if the fuel distributer plate was manually lifted. I replaced the intake runner boots and gaskets. In the process I dropped an intake nut down the #6 intake port. Being that it was late and I was tired, I wrote the nut off to falling under the car and cranked over the engine. I heard a ping-ping as it cranked and realized my mistake.

I told my friend what happened and told him I'd fix it at my expense. So we pulled the engine (thanks for the help RazorRacer), replaced the bent intake valve, and as I was about to install the cam carrier I noticed there was a nut missing on one of the #2 cylinder studs. Not only was the nut missing, the stud was gone too. I also saw one of the #4 cylinder nuts lying limp, another broken stud.

I let my friend know the bad news. He really isn't looking to put any more money into the car so that's when the thought of me buying the car began.

Now I have the engine out with at least two broken studs. I hate to put the engine back together and install it knowing it has broken studs, but now I need to get this car out of my garage. Agh!

Maybe it's just me, but I hate to see a 78SC go by the wayside. Do you think it truly has only 65K miles on it? I know it's in your garage and you will be doing the work, but will your friend consider you fixing it up and splitting whatever you sell if for?

Another idea is to strip it and make an SCCA car out of it. Is there a class of cars in which it would be competitive?

this is the major reason that people like to see original paint on the car. If the paint job had been better and you didn't know what to look for, you could have spent $15K or so for this "low miles" creampuff. It's a jungle out there...caveat emptor.

Razor Racer, I checked the SCCA site and surprisingly the only class I could find for a 911 is GT2. I can't imagine that anything except a special built racecar would be competetive in this class.

Anyone know if there are wheel to wheel PCA events in Texas?

I would think after the car had a visit to a frame alignment shop it would be a good start for a track car. I'm still waiting to hear from the owner to see what he wants to do next.

The car is in your garage.
The motor is out and apart.
Sounds to me like you have a lot of negotiating leverage.

"The car is in your garage.
The motor is out and apart."

Sounds to me like $2K ought to make you both happy :)
Then you'll have a project to learn all you'll ever wanted to know about a 911 and something to sell when you are done and can then get back on track for the car you really wanted in the first place. If you are lucky enough (and skilled enough) you'll break even on the original 2K and the parts.

I think the car is worth at about $8,000 in running condition, so I wouldn't recommend my friend sell it for $2,000. I think about $4,000 is still reasonable, but it's just not in the condition I'm looking for.

How much extra will it cost to replace the two studs and how much has been spent on the rebuild already?

We've spent $600 getting the car running again and another $100 on engine parts from my folly. I was figuring all 24 studs should be replaced since the engine's already out and it's showing them to be a problem. With studs, hardware, a gasket set, and a piston ring set (for good measure), an additional $800 in parts is needed to replace the studs. I think the cam chain tensioners should be upgraded since they're off and the current ones are manual adjusters.

I would either just replace the two studs for your friend and put it together and get it out of the garage if you dont want it or renegotiate the price big time to 3.4-4k like you were thinking. So what if it's had a front end knock, for 6k total you can have an SC with a rebuilt engine, new fuel system parts, a good clutch and decent cosmetics. Not too bad, just don't throw any more money (ok, maybe another 1k for new tyres, brake overhaul, replace some bushes, misc stuff) at it and just enjoy it while you save for the 930 of your dreams. IF he accepts 4k, you spend another three, I'm sure it can be sold for at least 6k later provided it's running well so 1k depreciation may be worth it to make the wait for your 930 more bearable?

I talked to the owner today and he would rather fix the car and keep it than sell it so cheap. So we'll be replacing all 24 studs and updating the chain tensioners. I think this is the best solution, especially if the car runs well after the work.

Thanks again for all the advice.