What's this '78 SC worth and mod questions?

[David]

This coupe was built 12/77, the odometer reads 65K miles, it's been repainted the original guards red, but there is significant orange peel and some overspray on the rubber. The car has been parked for about 5 years. The engine was pulled to replace an intake valve (keep track of your intake runner nuts!) and some broken cylinder studs were found. Before the intake valve incident the engine would idle but not rev. The fuel system had to be flushed and a new fuel pump, filter, and regulator installed to get the car to start. The car does not appear to have ever been wrecked. The rubber, dash, interior, etc are in good condition. It has manual windows, no sunroof, and vinyl interior. It has front and rear factory spoilers. It has not had the oil feed tensioner update but instead has aftermarket mechanical tensioners. The clutch has been updated and appears to be in good condition. It also has what appear to be factory harness loops on the rear deck where I would expect speakers to be, is this standard on this model? The car is stock except for what appear to be 3-peice Enkei 16" wheels with black centers and polished rims.

The August 2002 Excellence give '78 911 coupe values of $12,031 for poor condition, $13,679 for good, and $18,313 for excellent.

To drive again the car would need new engine cylinder studs, possible brake work from setting, the not running issue resolved, and a few other minor repairs.

I'm thinking of making an offer of around $8 to $9,000. I would be worried about offering more since I really don't know for sure what the car needs to run properly and safely. Is this offer price too low? Too high?

I like that the car is a 'stripper' model since I would make significant performance modifications if I buy the car.

For those of you out there that have made significant modifications to regular 911's such as bigger or turbo engines and body work, would you take the same approach or would you start with a 930?

Thanks for any help,
David

[RazorRacer]

I have an extra used fuel pump you can have. Personally, I wouldn't buy it unless it was running. If it was running, I would think you could get at least $12.5K if not $15K.

[nostatic]

The usual answer is to buy someone else's project. If you want a turbo, you probably should get a turbo. But if you want a project and have a fat bank account...well...

As far as the SC value, the low mileage is a plus, but the crappy paint job is worrisome. Why do a lousy job (paint on the rubber)? Then why did it fall into disrepair? If it looks like the 65K miles are infact accurate (interior is a good indicator, although vinyl doesn't show wear as quickly as leather, and check the pedal covers), then the lows miles are "worth something". But if the miles are low because it was wrecked then fixed, less so.

A perfect '78 w/65K miles should be a mid-high teens car. Start subtracting for low spec (even if you want vinyl and manual windows, the market generally doesn't), mechanical issues, and paint. Subtract more if you can't really identify the history on the car, and even more if you don't have a warm fuzzy about the car being not wrecked. Given your description of the car it fits in "poor" condition because it isn't running. I think your offer is about right, but people here have paid less for non-running SCs. The only reason to pay more is if the car is clean and low miles. You might want to think about $6K?

The attachment point on the rear are not harness loops but rather luggage tie downs. AFAIK, they won't handle harness forces at all.

[yelcab1]

A perfect SC = $15K,
Minus $5K for the engine rebuild = $10K
Minus $5K for the perfect paint job = $5K
Minus $2K for the perfect interior = $3K
Minus $3K for my time, aggrevation, and ... = $0K

It's worth nothing to me. But, you can stop anywhere along the line and find its value to YOU.

[scoll911]

I bought my 78 about about 5 years ago and paid $8,000. The car was running, the interior was fairly clean, the paint ok and it had 130,000 miles. Over the past four years, I rebuilt the engine as well as performing the usual mods. My guess I spent another $6,000 (I'm scared to add the cost of the engine rebuild).

If you can get for 8 - 9,000, I say go for it -- Next to driving it, the best part is rebuilding it.

[pbs911]

I bought my 78SC for $10K. It looked like ***** but have a completly rebuilt motor and trans. It ran perfect and has ever since. I woould gladly put money into the car for estetic reasons, but would not have bought it if the drive train was not perfect.

A car that does not run is about as good as a car that comes with a bunch of core parts - core motor, core trans- core brake calipers, core steering rack, etc.

The car will have be be completly stripped, painted and new rubber so plan on $4-5 K even if you do alot of the work.

The market value given in Excellence is also for a running car.

[David]

I just checked traderonline.com and it looks like excellent condition '78 911's are selling in the $13 to $15,000 range and poor to good cars are selling in the $9 to $11,000 range.

[David]

I talked to Oklahoma Foreign, Inc., they said a 911 in this condition would sell for $3,500 to $4,500. They also said a 3.2 engine with electronics would sell for $6,350, a 3.6 engine with all electronics would sell for $7,350 and a 3.3 turbo engine would sell for $7,500 to $9,000. This makes $8,000 way too high a price for this car.

BTW they have a 3.2 and 3.6 instock.

[plain fan]

Also try Planet9eleven, www.planet9eleven.com. I've bought from Oklahoma Foreign and Planet9eleven and the latter has better prices on many parts.

[Hetmann]

I think your offer is generous in today's market for the car described. Overspray and falling into disrepair indicate poor pride of ownership and maintenance. I think I would pass unless the price comes way down.

On the flip side, to me the non-sunroof and manual windows are a plus... especially if you are thinking RS style conversion or something for the track.

[Elombard]

Ya - you might as well do a full build on the motor and thats $8K done right and the car wont be worth near $16K. I would think it was worth closer to $4 or $5K. You can be a decent runner for $9K with higher miles.

[rdane]

$5/6K. No where close to 9K in this market and this area.

[stormcrow]

David,

I purchased my 78 SC Targa a few years back for $4000.00. The car was in storage (outside) for about three years. The engine was seized when the owner tried to get it on the road. The top was old and leaking, the interior leather was cracked and dried up and it needed a paint job.

The car had excellent body (no rust) and only had about 81,000 on it. I made the purchase and did all the work myself. Rebuid engine (with low mileage, you shouldn't have any issues with replacing major parts)- rings, bearings, etc.

Checked tolerances on cylinders, pistons, main crank shaft and everything looked good. The price for the rebuild kit was about $1,500.00 give or take a few bucks.

Reupholstered the seats and dash along with new top. Swapped the paint job out for a 78 TR7.

All in all, if you have the kudo's to do it yourself, then you will save a bundle. You need to have a garage along with all the necessary tools (Saving on labor costs = purchasing tools you need). The engine was apart for about a year. You need to tag everyting, take lots of pics and movies for documentation.

If you do this, then when you are finished, you will not be in the "poor house". My total investment less paint job is approximately $4000.00 to restore it. Like I said, nothing major to replace (pistons, cylinders, oil pump, etc). Did have to replace broken studs which was not a major underaking.

Get lots of good reading material and learn about the CIS system and you will be good to go. In addition, by doing the work yourself, you now have the knowledge to tackle any undertaking that involves work to be done on the engine in the future.

Steve

"A Porsche does more then just go fast in a straight line"

[David]

I guess my real dilemma at this point is: do I want an SC. I've always wanted a '78 or '79 930, but buying one would take a big chunk out of my savings. If I can buy the SC at a good price I could sell it in a year or two without much loss and buy something else. I would definitely do all the work myself, so the cost to get it running is limited to parts. One concern is that I tend to do major modifications, so I can see putting so much into the car that I would want to put in a 3.6 or turbo motor and add wide bodywork rather than sell it. Of course I wouldn't feel bad about making modifications to an SC like I would with a rarer 930. Decisions, decisions.

[rdane]

This may help.

This was my first Porsche. I knew little about the car or Porsche for that matter when I bought it. I know a whole lot more now. Luckily it has not been an expensive education and it sure could have been.

I bought/stole a very clean '79 SC in August for $8500. Motor, tranny, interior and paint were excellent. It looks awesome even close up. On the other hand I am a bit anal. Tires, a set of 8" Fuchs, Ricaros, all at discount and a number of boxes from Pelican added up to $9500+ in four short months. I will spend another $6K before I am done. And this is just a basic 911 SC for crimney sake!! I am beginning to feel like the financial/ whiz guy in the magazine this month I mean what sane person would spend $24+K for a '79 SC! Ya, I am doing 99% of the labor myself too.

I would have to wonder on the 65K original miles and a repaint...... It takes nothing to switch speedos. These cars are known for going a gazillion miles. Mine looks darn near cherry on the original leather interior, perfect exterior and it had 179K miles on it.

Love my car. Loved it the first day I drove it and am not unhappy with the repairs, upgrades I have done since. It is a way better car now.

BUT if I had it to do over I would put together $25K and go buy the car I wanted in the first place. For $25/to 30K I suspect you can come up with a decent Turbo and be smiling everytime you drive it. Just my 2 cents. I am now looking for a Turbo in that price range myself for all the reasons I just mentioned....like I LOVE my car

Good luck to you!

[Gordo2]

Before I bought my '83 in October I looked at a lot of cars. My technique was to give it a good inspection, noting every little thing I would want to replace, repair or fix. If it didnt' have documentation I would assume that common stuff was in need of immediate repair. From there I would check parts prices against the list I made up. I would figure the cost of the car with all the repair costs and see if it was still within my budget.

Worked really well for me. Let me know if you want a copy of my inspection checklist. It's the one on Pelican with some added notes of my own.

Gordo

[stormcrow]

If you purchase it, and restore it yourself, you won't be investing a whole lot of money if you keep it stock. When you sell it, you will reap a profit, which in turn you can use to purchase a upgrade. The price to keep it stock will be much less than mods and you will get a return on your investment.

Steve

"A Porsche does more then just go fast in a straight line"

[RazorRacer]

It sounds like you can offer him $4-$5K and not be out of line. Do you think he will take it for this? Then you could fix it up (not better than stock) and run it for a while. Get to know the SC. Then sell it for $12.5 to $15K and use that to help with the '78 or '79 turbo purchase.

Imagine running the SC a few times at TWS and later running the turbo at the same track. It should give you an appreciation for the additional HP. Also, just think how much I can learn helping you fix it up.

[ChrisBennet]

Originally posted by stormcrow
If you purchase it, and restore it yourself, you won't be investing a whole lot of money if you keep it stock. When you sell it, you will reap a profit, which in turn you can use to purchase a upgrade. The price to keep it stock will be much less than mods and you will get a return on your investment.

Steve

Yeah! Yeah! I want what Steve's smoking!
When friends give me that line "I'll restore it myself and save money over getting a really nice one." I tell them it is a nice theory.
Serously though, you will spend a lot of money restoring it so you will need to buy it really cheap.
A friend of mine bought an SC with the engine seperated from the car. According to the (lying) previous owner he removed the motor "because it had some leaks and then I got too busy to fix it".
When I went to reseal it I discovered the broken head studs, the chewed up intermediate shaft gear and the leak in the case behind the oil cooler that required welding....
-Chris

[David]

Since it's a friend that owns the car this is what I think I'll do: I offer him $5,000 and tell he can have 1st right to buy it back when I'm ready to sell it for $5,000 plus the parts I buy and my labor at $10 an hour.